D&D 5E What if you had to learn to use weapons?

[Sunseeker]

Everyone would play Wizards.

 

[Satyrn]

Everyone would play Wizards.

I still don't think I would.

But still, I agree with your sentiment.

 

[FieserMoep]

If you simply can learn to use weapons, why not outright learn to use all sorts of armor or shields?
Plate Wizard it is I guess.

 

[TallIan]

And when you broke or lost your ax/sword, what then?

True, and dependent on how much that comes up in your games. IMX rarely, but that's very DM dependant. Personally I don't think that the extra effort is worth the gain.

Limit what weapons a non-martial can ever become proficient with. In 1e, for example, non-martial classes had restricted lists of allowable weapons from which to choose their proficiencies.

I don't think this would help all that much, not many rogues wan't to use two handed axes or lances. non martial classes that use weapons won't really be affected. Are you really going to take rapier and hand crossbow away from rogues?

Also, even if proficient a non-martial will still never be as good as a martial; the combat ability variances (to-hit matrix in 1e, BAB in 3e, etc.) see to that.

Lanefan

I suppose extra attack does that in 5e. I think it boils down to personal preference agian.

Although weapon proficiencies are not the only thing that affects fighting prowess. Fighting style and possibly feats also come into play. As a DM if I want to make fighting hard by taking stuff from the PC's I'll just make sure that the battle ax wielding, GWF GWM half orc can't find a two handed weapon. Or the high elf archer will only find a short bow and three arrows.

 

[Shiroiken]

I agree with the concept of more levels of proficiency, but as written, it would be very hard to incorporate it into 5E without screwing over either martial or non-martial characters. I've come up with what I think would be an ideal system, but it's so different from the core game, that there is definitively some questions o balance.

 

[Sunseeker]

I still don't think I would.

But still, I agree with your sentiment.

Right, I mean honestly I don't find "Knowing how to use every weapon, armor and shield" to be that big of a boon to class features anyway. When I play a character I usually have an idea for them to wear X, Y, Z or wield A, B, C and I'll use that the entire game. That's my character's "look".

But if you're going to remove something classes get for free and then make them wait for it, you ought to do something a little better than "Hey you can use more weapons now!" to which I imagine that most responses are "So what?"

Like, I'd be okay with "learning to use weapons" if it actually meant something, sorta like Ranger's "favored enemy". A "Favored Weapon" would be a neat class feature.
Lets say, at level 1 you get to choose 2 Favored Weapons and get a +1 to attack and damage when using those weapons. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, your bonus increases by +1 and you gain one new Favored Weapon. (You may also choose a specific armor type or a specific shield type and get +1 to AC).

I mean that would be a feature I'd find engaging and helpful in defining the visuals and combat experience of my character.

 

[ro]

Here is one way to handle changing proficiencies. What are your suggestions?

Weapon Proficiency

In the Player's Handbook, you gain all of your weapon proficiencies
and make one full-adventure weapon choice at level 1. This update
replaces weapon proficiencies to make things more interesting.

Damage Group

Find your Damage Group in the list below, based on your weapon proficiencies.

Martial. For proficiency with all martial weapons.

-- Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger.

Simple+. For proficiency with all or most simple weapons and a few martial weapons.

-- Bard, Druid, Rogue.

Simple. For proficiency with all simple weapons.

-- Cleric, Monk, Warlock.

Minimal. For proficiency with only a few simple weapons.

-- Sorcerer, Wizard.

Damage Group Level. Your Damage Group Level equals
your combined level for all classes in that damage group and higher. If
your class choices give proficiency in a different group than normal,
that class's levels count toward that group instead.

Race Weapon Proficiencies. If your race gives you
weapon proficiencies, your classes are in that damage group (usually
Simple+) if they would otherwise be lower.

Weapon Type

At 1st level, you gain proficiency with ammunition weapons or either
bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing non-ammunition weapons. You gain an
additional weapon type proficiency whenever your damage die increases
through your damage group. You only gain this benefit if you have not
gained it from the same level or lower in another damage group.

Damage Dice

Subject to your Weapon Type proficiencies and your Damage Group
Level, you are proficient with weapons that use the damage dice shown in
the Weapon Damage table. Once per round when you hit with an attack using one of these weapons, you may add your proficiency bonus to the damage rolled.

You can fight with two 1dX weapons only if you are proficient with 2dX weapons.

Weapon Damage by Damage Group Level

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]Martial
[/TD]
[TD]Simple+
[/TD]
[TD]Simple
[/TD]
[TD]Minimal
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1st: d4/d6
[/TD]
[TD]1st: d4
[/TD]
[TD]1st: d4
[/TD]
[TD]1st: d4
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4th: d8/2d4
[/TD]
[TD]4th: d6
[/TD]
[TD]5th: d6
[/TD]
[TD]7th: d6
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9th: d10
[/TD]
[TD]9th: d8/2d4
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14th: d12/2d6
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Magic Items, Weapons, and Armor


Magical items can change shape and size to fit any character and can
also trade their magical properties with similar items. During a short
rest, you may exchange magical or non-magical properties between two
items by touching one to the other. For example, a +2 sword touched to a
mundane bow would result in a mundane sword and a +2 bow.


Edit: Added proficiency bonus to damage once per round. Without proficiency, the attacks are weaker than under the PHB as is. Adding proficiency once per round brings it closer to the original power level, and ends up boosting higher levels.

For Fighter class:
Level: New Version vs. PHB = change in damage1st: 1d6 v. 1d12 = 3.5 - 6.5 = -3
4th: 1d8 v. 1d12 = 4.5 - 6.5 = -2
5th: 2d8 v. 2d12 = 9 - 13 = -4
9th: 2d10 v. 2d12 = 11 - 13 = -2
11th: 3d10 v. 3d12 = 16.5 - 19.5 = -3
13th: 3d10 v. 3d12 = 16.5 - 19.5 = -3
14th: 3d12 v. 3d12 = 19.5 - 19.5 = 0

Level: Change in Damage w/o vs. w/ Proficiency
1st: -3 v. -1
4th: -2 v. 0
5th: -4 v. -1
9th: -2 v. +2
11th: -3 v. +1
13th: -3 v. +1
14th: 0 v. +5
17th: 0 v. +6

Edit: Added Magic Items, Weapons, and Armor.

 

[Greg K]

Are you really going to take rapier and hand crossbow away from rogues?.

Going to? I already did take them from the Rogue (and the Bard).

 

[Salamandyr]

The thing about weapon proficiency in early editions was it was a suspenders and belt issue. Differing combat ability was already baked into the combat matrices (or THAC0 if you've forgotten what 1st editioners really used), and then proficiency just layered on top of that. A magic-user was forbidden to use more than the dagger, the staff, and the sling, with an attack chart that was a wing and a prayer of successfully hitting. Did they really need to bookkeep formal training in one of those and have an additional -5 penalty on top of things?

Likewise, the fighters ability to "know how to use every weapon" got broken when it became "Potentially able to know every weapon, but really you're going to use most of your proficiency points to specialize in one or two".

 

[Li Shenron]

What if, rather than becoming proficient in a whole list of weapons at level 1, you gained proficiency in one or two weapons at certain levels as you leveled up?

It would be ok.

Most characters stick with 2 weapons (melee + ranged) for a long time, usually until they start finding magic ones.

So if you want to grant proficiencies more gradually, it will be fine.