D&D 5E Players Self-Assigning Rolls

[GMforPowergamers]

Interestingly, getting "a gut feeling about what course of action to follow" might be resolved by a Wisdom check per the rules.

Though I've never had a player consult his or her character's gut as to what to do.

we went around about gut feelings before... remember when I claimed the character (but not the player) may have a sense of the scene, item, or person that the DM needs to describe using real world terms...

"This house gives you the creeps"
"You don't like the mirror"
"You see the woman and something unearthly about her makes you feel attracted to her"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's actually really easy. Instead of asking, "Is there a candle in the room.", the players are encouraged to say something like, "I look around the room for a candle.". And instead of "Can I jump off the ledge safely?", the player says, "I look off the edge of the ledge and estimate the danger of leaping down.". Very few questions ever need to be asked of the DM.

Like "anti-jeopardy"

Please express your questions in the form of an action.

I am totally stealing this... anti jeopardy.

I refuse to run a game and would not like to stick in a game were a DM wants you to rephrase something that they understood the request of.

 

[Sunseeker]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but since I keep calling it 'word games' my problem isn't "Hey in my games I like people to try to explain in game what they do" that's cool, even if it isn't my way to run, I wouldn't mind playing in that game...

my problem is when someone says "The person sitting across from me told me what he wants, but I want him to rephrase it before we go on"

example:
player "Is the door locked"
DM "How would your character know that"
or
DM "You have to describe an action to find out"

Personally I don't see how the approach avoids "pixel whining" that they claimed it does. Isn't, by virtue of telling a person the way they said something is wrong and they'll need to rephrase it into an action doing exactly that?

When a player says "Is the door locked?" If it matters (such as the door handle is cursed) I don't see why the DM can't say something like "When you check it out, you get a bad feeling from the handle and try to avoid it." Sure, some players may complain that the DM is imparting action and motive they didn't state, but those people would benefit from stating their actions as actions. And frankly, there's no harm in straight-up telling those players that. "Okay Joe, then I'll need you to state your own actions." If they refuse to change they're essentially playing "Gotcha" in the bad way with the DM, which is totally not cool.

And that's not to say the DM can't tailor their responses to each player. Some players may be more comfortable stating actions. "I walk over to the door and jiggle the handle to see if it's locked." Some players may be more comfortable pushing buttons "I use my lockpicking skill to examine the lock mechanism of the door." Some players may prefer to ask questions "Is the door locked?"

At the end of the day, it's on us, the DM to understand these individuals and that one solution may not fit all players and that not fitting a specific solution doesn't mean they shouldn't be welcome at the table, it just means everyone needs to be flexible.

I want to note here for the record: I live in a very small town and like playing in-person. I don't have a lot of players jumping to play and I don't have a lot of games to jump into. So I have to be flexible. I cannot one-true-way even at my own table because I simply wouldn't be able to keep a group together (minimum 3 players).

 

[Shasarak]

Why does a roll being made change the determination of whether it can succeed or can fail?

My guess would be because if you dont roll then your success or failure is in a quantum state similar to Schrodingers Cat. It may succeed or it may fail.

Once you roll the dice then you effectively prove the Cat is alive or dead.

 

[iserith]

we went around about gut feelings before... remember when I claimed the character (but not the player) may have a sense of the scene, item, or person that the DM needs to describe using real world terms...

"This house gives you the creeps"
"You don't like the mirror"
"You see the woman and something unearthly about her makes you feel attracted to her"

I prefer trying to avoid that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Personally I don't see how the approach avoids "pixel whining" that they claimed it does. Isn't, by virtue of telling a person the way they said something is wrong and they'll need to rephrase it into an action doing exactly that?

When a player says "Is the door locked?" If it matters (such as the door handle is cursed) I don't see why the DM can't say something like "When you check it out, you get a bad feeling from the handle and try to avoid it." Sure, some players may complain that the DM is imparting action and motive they didn't state, but those people would benefit from stating their actions as actions. And frankly, there's no harm in straight-up telling those players that. "Okay Joe, then I'll need you to state your own actions." If they refuse to change they're essentially playing "Gotcha" in the bad way with the DM, which is totally not cool.

And that's not to say the DM can't tailor their responses to each player. Some players may be more comfortable stating actions. "I walk over to the door and jiggle the handle to see if it's locked." Some players may be more comfortable pushing buttons "I use my lockpicking skill to examine the lock mechanism of the door." Some players may prefer to ask questions "Is the door locked?"

At the end of the day, it's on us, the DM to understand these individuals and that one solution may not fit all players and that not fitting a specific solution doesn't mean they shouldn't be welcome at the table, it just means everyone needs to be flexible.

yup...

and the worst of this is when it DOESN'T matter...

imagine a dungeon with 12 rooms, there are 5 locked doors, 1 stuck door and about a dozen doors that will just open... no traped doors at all, no poisoned or cursed handles. half of the rooms are more or less empty of immediate threats (some have interesting bits, or treasure. or are just rooms with no encounters) and half the rooms have encounters (some traps, some easy monsters some hard monsters)... no 'gotcha' traps.

PC is in room 1 with 2 doors (we will call them right and left doors)
The PC asks "Is the right door locked" the DM has on his notes that all that is in the room behind door on right is an old well that has gone dry with no encounter (although the well and design of the room could give a clue as to the nature of the dungeon), the door isn't locked and or stuck. Can you imagine the DM stopping the game flow to correct the player to take an action?!?!

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I prefer trying to avoid that.

so when describing a scene, when you know something and want to convay it to the player because there character should notice it, but it isn't sight, sound, or smell how do you?

 

[iserith]

so when describing a scene, when you know something and want to convay it to the player because there character should notice it, but it isn't sight, sound, or smell how do you?

Like what?

 

[Charlaquin]

yup...

and the worst of this is when it DOESN'T matter...

imagine a dungeon with 12 rooms, there are 5 locked doors, 1 stuck door and about a dozen doors that will just open... no traped doors at all, no poisoned or cursed handles. half of the rooms are more or less empty of immediate threats (some have interesting bits, or treasure. or are just rooms with no encounters) and half the rooms have encounters (some traps, some easy monsters some hard monsters)... no 'gotcha' traps.

PC is in room 1 with 2 doors (we will call them right and left doors)
The PC asks "Is the right door locked" the DM has on his notes that all that is in the room behind door on right is an old well that has gone dry with no encounter (although the well and design of the room could give a clue as to the nature of the dungeon), the door isn't locked and or stuck. Can you imagine the DM stopping the game flow to correct the player to take an action?!?!

Can we all take a step back here and honestly evaluate how often this kind of thing actually happens? Cause I don’t know about y’all, but I can’t think of a single time I’ve been asked “is the door locked?” or told “I check to see if the door is locked.” Most of the time, the people I’ve played with just say, “I open the door” or, “we go through the west door” and if it’s locked I tell them so. Honestly, once players at my table get used to the fact that I handle knowledge checks passively and the answer to “can I make a (whatever) check?” is always “tell me what you’re trying to do and how, I’ll let you know if you need to make a check to do that” I don’t really get a lot of questions, except to ask for clarification about my descriptions.

 

[Sunseeker]

Can we all take a step back here and honestly evaluate how often this kind of thing actually happens? Cause I don’t know about y’all, but I can’t think of a single time I’ve been asked “is the door locked?” or told “I check to see if the door is locked.” Most of the time, the people I’ve played with just say, “I open the door” or, “we go through the west door” and if it’s locked I tell them so. Honestly, once players at my table get used to the fact that I handle knowledge checks passively and the answer to “can I make a (whatever) check?” is always “tell me what you’re trying to do and how, I’ll let you know if you need to make a check to do that” I don’t really get a lot of questions, except to ask for clarification about my descriptions.

This was my middle point about doing things when it matters.

When my players say "We go through the left door." if the left door is trapped with dangerous magic that as soon as they touch it it will happen, we can likely assume that what the players did not mean is "We pick the door with the trap in order to get ourselves killed." This is where it's a good time for the DM to "give away" that taking this action without any investigative action may be dangerous.

I think that is "fair" play. The players are clearly attempting to not 10ft-pole the room, so the DM should be willing to "tip their hand" when it may be a good time for the party to actually put that 10ft pole to use. Otherwise you end up with:
DM: The door explodes when you open it. You all take *dice roll* 55 points of fire damage.
Player1-5 at the same time: That's like double my health man!
DM: you shoulda checked the door.
Player1-5 at the same time: we'd encountered no trapped doors, we had no reason to think this one would be any different!
DM: Too bad so sad.

I mean there are pretty easy ways to be a jerk DM, and this is one of them. If the DM knows that a room, a door, a place, a weapon is dangerous, there should be tells to that end for the players to pick up on. "The door radiates an intense heat when you get close to it." (It's trapped!) "The chest seems strangely clean within this dusty library." (It's a mimic!) "You hear a familiar voice on the other side of the door." (It's your mother!)