D&D 5E No Magic Shops!

[Maxperson]

But...but...if it's random and occasional, then you don't need to a price list that you build yourself. You just need that occasional price.

Let's say you somehow randomly determine that a shady merchant has a Figurine of Wondrous Power: Olivine Platypus for sale. How much is he asking? Well, you know your heroes are all toting around about 10k gold, so you make up a price: 25k gold. (I spent a solid 0.75 seconds making that up.)

Is that too much or too little? And how could you possibly tell the difference? I guess if they won't pay the 25k then it's too much. If they eagerly buy it, you probably underpriced it. But so what? But what does the "right" price really mean from game balance perspective?

The pricing is also going to vary considerably. The +1 greatsword being sold by a court dandy that he just inherited from his grandfather Sir Iwasa Selfmade Badass is probably going to be sold cheaper than the +1 greatsword and NPC greatsword wielding NPC fighter is going to sell it. The former couldn't care less about large weapons and probably wants some coin to throw parties, and the latter is going to be using it to save his life against monsters and other enemies.

 

[Maxperson]

A person not consenting to converse with you is not bullying.

This is absolutely true, which is probably why I never said that.

 

[Hussar]

Because what we have now is totally whack, as have been demonstrated multiple times in this and other threads, and that we (the proponents) would expect WotC with their expertise and ressources to offer something useful, instead of leaving it to the single DM.

But, again, to me it's a practical issue.

What would be a "non-whack" price list? Utility based? Where the more useful an item is expected to be, the more expensive it is? So, any plussed item would be the most expensive item you could possibly buy (since any plussed item is going to be used the most of any magic item) while something like Nolzur's Magical Pigments would be cheapest?

Then you would have people endlessly bitching about how this affects world building. After all, most of those items that aren't terribly useful to PC's, are EXTREMELY useful to the wider world. A Philter of Love isn't exactly the most useful PC item (handy, in certain situations, but far less useful due to the racial restraints), but would play merry hell with a setting if it was cheap.

No matter what price list they come up with, it's going to be out of whack with someone's campaign. Just like the existing one.

 

[Hussar]

As someone who has Maxperson on ignore, what I have seen of his comments only reinforces my position from earlier: Nothing of value was lost by me no longer being able to see his posts. I mean, what sort of warped position do you need to have to claim you are the victim of cyber-bulling because I no longer allow him to converse with me? It's absurd.

As someone whose mouth has gotten him put on more than a couple of ignore lists, I can somewhat empathize with the PITA of the forum being screwed up by the ignore poster feature. However, that being said, I can understand why they do it this way.

Back a few years, ignoring posters used to work like [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] wants - the ignored poster could still see posts. And what happens is that the ignored poster then starts quoting the ignorer to take cheap blind shots because the ignorer cannot answer back.

IOW, [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION], it was tried and it didn't work. People would continue to shout at the closed door even after being ignored. And it was far more disruptive than simply removing all contact between the two posters.

Now, as my above quote proves, it's not perfect. Since I can quote someone and I'm not on either poster's ignore list (at the moment), then obviously [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] will see this quote. But, it does take a third person to do this. I'm just doing it to illustrate a point, not really to take any sides.

For me personally, I don't put many posters on ignore. There are a couple of posters that I know I just cannot have a rational discourse with. It just never works. So, those posters get put on the ignore list. And, periodically, I'll take it off and try again.

I think the only thing that truly annoys me about the ignore list function is when you get into an argument with someone, they whack on you ignore, and then leave you on forever just because of this one argument. It's baffling to me. And annoying as heck. Sure, my mouth maybe got ahead of my brain once, but, hopefully that doesn't mean for all time.

But hey, if someone chooses to simply not have any contact with me, then that absolutely is their right.

 

[Hussar]

It's not always such a direct correlation.

I prefer there to be some sort of baseline price lists that I don't have to build myself, but that doesn't in the least mean I support magic buffet item shopping!

It's realistic that within the game world random magic items are occasionally going to come available for sale or trade; and for this I'd like a pricing guide.

But I'll repeat again: random items. Things other adventurers don't want or can't use or have in surplus. Heirlooms being sold when there's no heirs left. That sort of thing.

Not pick-what-you-want.

But, I'm not quite sure what you mean then. We HAVE a price list for magic items. The baseline price list is right there in the DMG. Now, the exact prices aren't there - the prices are given in a range - but, there is a price list.

How would anything change by having a different price list?

 

[Sunseeker]

As someone whose mouth has gotten him put on more than a couple of ignore lists, I can somewhat empathize with the PITA of the forum being screwed up by the ignore poster feature. However, that being said, I can understand why they do it this way.

Back a few years, ignoring posters used to work like @Maxperson wants - the ignored poster could still see posts. And what happens is that the ignored poster then starts quoting the ignorer to take cheap blind shots because the ignorer cannot answer back.

IOW, @Maxperson, it was tried and it didn't work. People would continue to shout at the closed door even after being ignored. And it was far more disruptive than simply removing all contact between the two posters.

Now, as my above quote proves, it's not perfect. Since I can quote someone and I'm not on either poster's ignore list (at the moment), then obviously @Maxperson will see this quote. But, it does take a third person to do this. I'm just doing it to illustrate a point, not really to take any sides.

For me personally, I don't put many posters on ignore. There are a couple of posters that I know I just cannot have a rational discourse with. It just never works. So, those posters get put on the ignore list. And, periodically, I'll take it off and try again.

I think the only thing that truly annoys me about the ignore list function is when you get into an argument with someone, they whack on you ignore, and then leave you on forever just because of this one argument. It's baffling to me. And annoying as heck. Sure, my mouth maybe got ahead of my brain once, but, hopefully that doesn't mean for all time.

But hey, if someone chooses to simply not have any contact with me, then that absolutely is their right.

It's worth pointing out, if you are ignored by someone and really want to know what they're posting, you can go to to their profile and look at their recent posts.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I think the only thing that truly annoys me about the ignore list function is when you get into an argument with someone, they whack on you ignore, and then leave you on forever just because of this one argument. It's baffling to me. And annoying as heck. Sure, my mouth maybe got ahead of my brain once, but, hopefully that doesn't mean for all time.

Agreed.

Honestly, instead of just excising the posts, a blank placeholder post with a note "you are ignoring this poster" along with the number of days they've been on your ignore list would be helpful.

For those being ignored, just insert a random XKCD comic. That would also solve pagination.

 

[Sunseeker]

As someone whose mouth has gotten him put on more than a couple of ignore lists, I can somewhat empathize with the PITA of the forum being screwed up by the ignore poster feature. However, that being said, I can understand why they do it this way.

Back a few years, ignoring posters used to work like [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] wants - the ignored poster could still see posts. And what happens is that the ignored poster then starts quoting the ignorer to take cheap blind shots because the ignorer cannot answer back.

IOW, [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION], it was tried and it didn't work. People would continue to shout at the closed door even after being ignored. And it was far more disruptive than simply removing all contact between the two posters.

Now, as my above quote proves, it's not perfect. Since I can quote someone and I'm not on either poster's ignore list (at the moment), then obviously [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] will see this quote. But, it does take a third person to do this. I'm just doing it to illustrate a point, not really to take any sides.

For me personally, I don't put many posters on ignore. There are a couple of posters that I know I just cannot have a rational discourse with. It just never works. So, those posters get put on the ignore list. And, periodically, I'll take it off and try again.

I think the only thing that truly annoys me about the ignore list function is when you get into an argument with someone, they whack on you ignore, and then leave you on forever just because of this one argument. It's baffling to me. And annoying as heck. Sure, my mouth maybe got ahead of my brain once, but, hopefully that doesn't mean for all time.

But hey, if someone chooses to simply not have any contact with me, then that absolutely is their right.

It's worth pointing out, you can go to the blocker/blockee's profile and see their recent posts.

 

[Guest 6801328]

But, again, to me it's a practical issue.

What would be a "non-whack" price list? Utility based? Where the more useful an item is expected to be, the more expensive it is? So, any plussed item would be the most expensive item you could possibly buy (since any plussed item is going to be used the most of any magic item) while something like Nolzur's Magical Pigments would be cheapest?

Then you would have people endlessly bitching about how this affects world building. After all, most of those items that aren't terribly useful to PC's, are EXTREMELY useful to the wider world. A Philter of Love isn't exactly the most useful PC item (handy, in certain situations, but far less useful due to the racial restraints), but would play merry hell with a setting if it was cheap.

No matter what price list they come up with, it's going to be out of whack with someone's campaign. Just like the existing one.

This is spot on. There is no such thing as a deterministically rational price for magic items. No matter what numbers they chose, almost everybody (that cares) is going to gripe. And the rest of the people are going to gripe about the wasted pages.

However, I could see a half page or so of advice to the DM on how to price things in their own campaign. That might be useful.

 

[Maxperson]

As someone whose mouth has gotten him put on more than a couple of ignore lists, I can somewhat empathize with the PITA of the forum being screwed up by the ignore poster feature. However, that being said, I can understand why they do it this way.

Back a few years, ignoring posters used to work like [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] wants - the ignored poster could still see posts. And what happens is that the ignored poster then starts quoting the ignorer to take cheap blind shots because the ignorer cannot answer back.

IOW, [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION], it was tried and it didn't work. People would continue to shout at the closed door even after being ignored. And it was far more disruptive than simply removing all contact between the two posters.

That's what moderation and temporary bans are for. Besides, if the person never knows about it, does it really matter all that much(other than being mod worthy)? People will think the person is being a douche and the person he's being a douche to won't care as he will probably never know.

I don't see that as good enough reason to subject us to the mechanical issues the site has with the block feature, or to remove from me the right to see posts and respond to them in a group setting.