Encounters per day

So, the DMG infamously suggests 6 to 8 encounters per day (of the medium-to-hard variety), which most gaming tables find... untenable. However I've discovered data that has led me to a different conclusion.

This is fallout of the work of trying to define prices for magic items. That in turn required an understanding of the rates of treasure generation, which led to the number of expected hoards of loot per leveling tier. The number of hoards needed explaining, and an easy enough assumption is that they come from the hard+ encounters, generally.

That in turn was back-calculated to see whether the assumption fit — and it did. It turns out that if you assume that hard encounters account for 30% of all experience gained (which was derived based on the ratio of the necessary number of such encounters versus the maximum number possible), and that each hard encounter generated a hoard of loot, you end up with exactly the number of expected hoards per tier, distributed evenly for everything except the first four levels, which instead progress with 1, 1, 2, 3 hoards for levels 1, 2, 3, 4.

Of course that leads to the question of, how is the rest of your experience distributed?

Well, an interesting pattern comes up. If you get 2 or 3 hoards per level, corresponding to the hard fights, then you expect that there's easier stuff that led up to it. And if you divide, say, level 6's experience by 3, and then subtract out the amount allocated to the hard fight, the remainder fits pretty nicely into a pattern like 5 easy + 2 medium + 1 hard.

And suddenly you have an encounter arc, of easy stuff leading to harder stuff.

A few easy encounters, that lead to medium encounters, that lead to the final boss. Or perhaps a couple easy that lead to a medium, and then another easy that leads to a different medium, and put the clues together to get to the hard fight. That sort of thing. It provides a structure for how to organize encounters, from the easier beginnings to the harder endings. (At least for campaigns that are more story-focused, rather than dungeon-focused.)


Of further interest, it turns out that you reach the "expected experience per day" using splits like: 3 easy, 2 medium, 2 hard; or 5 easy, 2 medium, 1 deadly; 5 easy, 2 medium, 1 hard, plus 1 more easy; etc. Basically, you don't need a flat 8 medium encounters.

So I put the XP numbers in a spreadsheet to compare, and found something odd. The table for XP per day doesn't add up to 6 to 8 encounters for hard and medium, respectively. For hard encounters, the daily XP gain would need between 4 and 5 encounters per day. For medium encounters, you'd need between 6 and 7 encounters per day to reach the daily total. That's about 1.5 encounters less than the recommendation.

How do you get 6 to 8 encounters? Or, a better question is, what combinations of easy/medium/hard/deadly encounters generates the commonly recommended XP per day? Well, the best pattern I got was 3 easy + 2 medium + 2 hard. That's 7 encounters, and generally keeps you within 5%-10% of the recommended daily XP. It's also a good pyramid setup, where you can progress from easy to medium to hard encounters (possibly twice).

Of course you're also getting 45% to 50% of all your XP from the hard encounters, which means you can't just use the hard encounters for loot. Rather, maybe 2 out of 3 encounters actually rolls on the loot hoard tables, which actually kind of helps out in giving more options for choosing when to give treasure hoards.


So overall, the layout is two small arcs per day: 2 easy, 1 medium, 1 hard, then 1 easy, 1 medium, 1 hard. Though obviously you can mix up the order, or swap an easy+hard for a deadly, etc.

The easy encounters are unlikely to be combat, which means you're probably only dealing with perhaps 4 combats per game day, which is far more reasonable than 6-8, while still allowing for one or two short rests, to balance towards the short rest classes.

If you don't want easy encounters, you can also do 3 hard and 2 medium for 5 total encounters per day, which is again easy to work into a pair of short rests (ie: medium+hard, short rest, medium+hard, short rest, hard), though it's more combat-intensive.


Summary: The 6-8 medium-to-hard encounters per game day is a lie. The XP per day is balanced more towards 4 medium or hard encounters, with a few easy encounters to fill in the gaps (totalling up to about 7). This also fits reasonably well with the treasure hoards gained, which might be provided for 2 out of every 3 hard encounters.


Have I missed anything?
 

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Think of it another way and things get easier:

A deadly encounter is likely to remove about 40% of a normal party's long rest replenishing resources (hps, spells, etc...)
A hard encounter will deplete 20%.
A normal about 10%.
Easy none. These battles should have a purpose other than threatening the lives of the PCs. They should have someone to rescue, something to stop, or information to be uncovered.

Plan for a 100% usage and you'll be providing a nice challenge.
 

"So, the DMG infamously suggests 6 to 8 encounters per day (of the medium-to-hard variety), which most gaming tables find... untenable. However I've discovered data that has led me to a different conclusion."

The data i discovered was that the DMG said with a lot of caveats on typical this, blah blah that parties could "handle" 6 to 8 medium to hard encounters a day... Later on with a mention of an expected 2 shorts and a long.

Not sure how what you came up with, which seems to be that differing the mix of encounters produces a similar set of results proves this to be "a lie".
 

I think most that complain about the DMG rules want 2-4 encounters per day. So even your 5-6-7-8 total encounters is a bit much for their taste.
 


Have I missed anything?

Well... what makes the whole discussion complicated is that not every day is an adventuring day :)

IMHO the 6-8 encounters suggestion comes from the dungeon. I would expect that a non-dungeon adventure would feature 2-4 combat encounters in a single day, perhaps set in a urban or wilderness environment. Travelling encounters are probably going to be a lot more scarce, maybe just 1 on a given day, and with lots of empty days between. But as soon as you enter a dungeon, the general story expectation is that the party would find quite many threats therein before it's time to get out and have some rest. A game balanced to handling too few combats before a night's rest wouldn't really result in satisfying dungeon stories IMO...

So the problem is, that the game is supposed to support both ends of the spectrum: the single monster encountered in the middle of a long travel, and the raid on a dungeon full of dangers, as well as everything in between.

The key is of course to dial on the difficulty of those encounters. This means that actually that single encounter in the jungle or the desert should probably be so hard to deplete nearly all the PCs daily resources, while the dungeon encounters should be the easiest of all.

There might be some resistance to this idea... typically I have myself always envisioned dungeons to be the deadliest places of the fantasy world, and the wilderness to be relatively tame, a sort of "points of darkness" setting. But thinking about the "points of light" approach, and also at the fact that very old editions (see BECMI) typically suggested that your early adventures were in dungeons, and only later the PCs would be capable to adventure in the wilderness, it actually tells how this idea has been part of D&D for a long time.
 

Well... what makes the whole discussion complicated is that not every day is an adventuring day :)

IMHO the 6-8 encounters suggestion comes from the dungeon. I would expect that a non-dungeon adventure would feature 2-4 combat encounters in a single day, perhaps set in a urban or wilderness environment. Travelling encounters are probably going to be a lot more scarce, maybe just 1 on a given day, and with lots of empty days between. But as soon as you enter a dungeon, the general story expectation is that the party would find quite many threats therein before it's time to get out and have some rest. A game balanced to handling too few combats before a night's rest wouldn't really result in satisfying dungeon stories IMO...

So the problem is, that the game is supposed to support both ends of the spectrum: the single monster encountered in the middle of a long travel, and the raid on a dungeon full of dangers, as well as everything in between.

The key is of course to dial on the difficulty of those encounters. This means that actually that single encounter in the jungle or the desert should probably be so hard to deplete nearly all the PCs daily resources, while the dungeon encounters should be the easiest of all.

There might be some resistance to this idea... typically I have myself always envisioned dungeons to be the deadliest places of the fantasy world, and the wilderness to be relatively tame, a sort of "points of darkness" setting. But thinking about the "points of light" approach, and also at the fact that very old editions (see BECMI) typically suggested that your early adventures were in dungeons, and only later the PCs would be capable to adventure in the wilderness, it actually tells how this idea has been part of D&D for a long time.

Agree with most all of this - what i read in the DMG was them seting out the "baseline" assumptions they made when tyey worked for balance - and that they told you this, adde CR system with lots of bells and whistles about upping it here or lowering it there etc - to give you a good understanding of the underpinning mechanics.

Some however seem to have read it as a locked down schedule of events to be followed.

The key for a Gm is understanding what things do and why they work and dont work.

one of my not terribly uncommon change-ups is the BIG BATTLE EARLY followed by lesser pressure that keeps them from long rest full reset.

One such encounter they were after prisoners and some raiders who took them and were raidning

The raiders were out looking for their group as well.

As fate -literally draw of a card* - had it, they encountered the toughest guy leading one of the raider groups in the woods before they got to the compound. It was a fairly strong and unexpected fight that went back and forth but the party barely won out but was very banged up. unfortunately they now knew the other raiders were scrambling and reacting and that if they waited around the prisoners might get killed or the raiders might leave with them - so the victory took them from "moderate time pressure" to "serious time pressure" and they had to pull out all stops and so one to win the day - using their kill as a card to be played of course.

Another one coming soon will have a big beast being hunted by multiple groups with different objectives - They need to get to the beast first to achieve theirs - even though holding it after a tough win may be harder than taking it captive.

* While i have groups and adversaries and environments and moving plots going on and setup etc - i have players each deal me a face down card from standard 52 deck at the start of the session. Each suit refers to a type of scene and the value indicates importance - and so those are used during the session for outside influences and such. "Wait, wait, the rains that you have been getting have gotten worse and the river is flooding? how bad does it look?" --- [[GM turns over Queen of spades]] "oh S**T". :-) Spade = environmental threat, clubs equal combat threat, hearts means opportunities relating to help/aid/etc or gains along those lines and diamonds means opportunities along wealth and loot and profit lines. keeps the PC, the Gm and the NPCs on their toes and even sometimes working towards the same goal if not together at unexpected and unscripted times. (it also forces me to build fuller areas where i have ideas for each suit - several ready at all times and a need to foreshadow them to varying degrees.)

yes i rambled a bit but the key point relating here is the "standard day" has little to do with any sort of way a GM needs the game encounters to flow for his game to play out to the balance and paced they need for their games and style and setting - other than giving them a baseline to notice and make "i am doing less of this so..." adjustments.
 

2-3 deadly encounters per day with short rest in-between.

Maybe few easy encounter as scouting parties to shake things up.

In my experience, this greatly favors classes with long-rest resource recovery, especially casters due to their flexibility.

Buff spells that will last for an encounter need 2-3 instead of 6-8.

If the encounter is deadly because of more creatures, then any area of efffect will be more efficient by affecting more targets. This is true of both damage and debuffs.

If the encounter is deadly because of tougher foes, then single target debuffs will have a lot more payoff. With the 5e system of 2 of 6 trained save proficiencies, good spell selection will make sure that the big foes are just as easy to affect as normal foes. (Except Legendary Saves, they provide a buffer.)

Finally, 2-3 deadly encounters will average less total rounds per day then 8-8 mixed encounters. More rounds are a benefit for those who can consistently put out, like weapon wielders. So this being shorter disadvantages them vs. casters.

The flip side is that casters get a boost from needing less "filler" like cantrips in order to stretch their spell slots - they can be casting meaningful spells every action, so they become more effective per action compared to the same character when they need to stretch for a lot more actions.
 

In any game with feats, multiclassing, more than four PCs, experienced minmax players, and/or magic items, you need double-deadly or even deadlier encounters to challenge the party.

The DMG idea of an endless parade of weaksauce encounters where the outcome of the fight is never in question and no challenge is present is simply not what I want out of the game.
 

So the problem is, that the game is supposed to support both ends of the spectrum: the single monster encountered in the middle of a long travel, and the raid on a dungeon full of dangers, as well as everything in between.

The key is of course to dial on the difficulty of those encounters. This means that actually that single encounter in the jungle or the desert should probably be so hard to deplete nearly all the PCs daily resources, while the dungeon encounters should be the easiest of all.

I'd also argue that the 0 or 1 encounters per day during travel leads to meta-gaming by the players, such that they know there is no need to hold anything in reserve and can sledgehammer the encounter into the ground (if it occurs). Varying the number of random encounters per day (and difficulty as you suggest) can put a governor on that behavior. For example, the trivial encounter they nova'd draws the attention of some much nastier and problematic creature... Now they're in trouble as they've used up their big guns :)
 

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