MonsterEnvy
Legend
Rogues have never had any issues keeping up damage wise in my experience. Particularly if they have strong magic items as well.
Help in getting a second sneak attack
- Thread starter CapnZapp
- Start date
Gardens & Goblins
First Post
Have their roguish charm and connections provide them with roguish side-kick? Extra sneak attack, pair of hands, someone to grab expensive coffees...
aco175
Legend
In both my games the thief does more damage than the fighter. Granted nobody is playing barbarian or paladin or sentinel.
You can step on the fighter's ability to crit easier. If the thief can crit you double all the dice, even the sneak attack dice. I like to stack powers on items. Something that lets you crit on a roll of 15-20 1/rest would work, specially if he has advantage to the roll.
You can step on the fighter's ability to crit easier. If the thief can crit you double all the dice, even the sneak attack dice. I like to stack powers on items. Something that lets you crit on a roll of 15-20 1/rest would work, specially if he has advantage to the roll.
Zardnaar
Legend
The -5/+10 ruin alot of things sneak attack being one. I allow 3pp stuff but generally the rogue needs to make themselves usefull in other ways than dpm. The ranged rogue is weak as well with one exception. Generally.
1. Always use bonus action. Even if it's to duel wield doubles your chance of sneak attacking.
2. Thief take healer feat. You can use healers kits as a bonus action.
3. Assaissin. Take crossbow expert.
4. Masteind take greenflame blame, bonus action grant advantage.
Things that enable 2 sneak attacks (situational/limited)
1. Vattlemaster fighter.
2. Dissonant whispers spell
3. Sentinel feat.
4. Maybe haste plus readied action.
5. Attacks of opportunity
I usually hand out magical weapons and things like longswords, daggers, spears are more common than say hand crossbows, two handed weapons (maybe a greatsword). Our Halfling Rogue is a decent damage dealer and uses a +2 dagger (level 5), and has the weapon specialization feat (and rolled a 17 dex to start with).
As a DM if you play it like 4E and 3E and give PCs magical equivalents of what they want polearms, two handed weapons, longbows and hand crossbows are the best weapons if feats are used.
1. Always use bonus action. Even if it's to duel wield doubles your chance of sneak attacking.
2. Thief take healer feat. You can use healers kits as a bonus action.
3. Assaissin. Take crossbow expert.
4. Masteind take greenflame blame, bonus action grant advantage.
Things that enable 2 sneak attacks (situational/limited)
1. Vattlemaster fighter.
2. Dissonant whispers spell
3. Sentinel feat.
4. Maybe haste plus readied action.
5. Attacks of opportunity
I usually hand out magical weapons and things like longswords, daggers, spears are more common than say hand crossbows, two handed weapons (maybe a greatsword). Our Halfling Rogue is a decent damage dealer and uses a +2 dagger (level 5), and has the weapon specialization feat (and rolled a 17 dex to start with).
As a DM if you play it like 4E and 3E and give PCs magical equivalents of what they want polearms, two handed weapons, longbows and hand crossbows are the best weapons if feats are used.
Last edited:
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Traditionally, D&D rogues have been skill monkeys, not DPS kings. 5e gives them a lot of help - in 1st-3rd edition their DPS was horribad - but parties still bring a rogue for their skills, not their DPS. MMOs made rogues DPS because they had less use for skills, but a player coming from a MMO may choose rogue under false pretences.
Some suggestions:
1) Give the rogue a chance to shine. Make the adventure about stealing something without getting caught, rather than killing everything in sight.
2) dropping rogue friendly magic items can help if they are underperforming, but forget about sneak attack - something like an Amulet of Health can give them fighter-like HP and encourage them to play more aggressively.
3) Kill them. Seriously, if they don't like their character kill them off and encourage them to make something more to their taste. A dex fighter or ninja-like monk is thematically similar but will probably have better DPS. Less drastically, encourage them to multi-class to fighter.
Some suggestions:
1) Give the rogue a chance to shine. Make the adventure about stealing something without getting caught, rather than killing everything in sight.
2) dropping rogue friendly magic items can help if they are underperforming, but forget about sneak attack - something like an Amulet of Health can give them fighter-like HP and encourage them to play more aggressively.
3) Kill them. Seriously, if they don't like their character kill them off and encourage them to make something more to their taste. A dex fighter or ninja-like monk is thematically similar but will probably have better DPS. Less drastically, encourage them to multi-class to fighter.
If your SS / GWM chars outdpr the rogue then your mobs AC is to bad !
SS / GWM is still requiring to hit. Lets asume a mid Level Party with maxed attack stats so gives you +5 and +3 from the prof.
So that is +8 and lets say another +2.5 from bless.
That means +10 to +11 for them to hit in a normal combat Scenario. with GWM / SS this turns into +5 to +6 (due to the -5)
If they still hit reliantly with their Cookie cutter Modus on then your mobs seem to have AC of Maximum 15 if at all or your Players use fudged dice.
Make a test in your next game session before pulling up any obscure houserules for sneak attack:
use some e.g. hobgoblins clad in plate and shield, they do not even have to have that many hitpoints, but let them have AC 20 and lets see how your SS / GWM fare against these. Of yourse take an adequate number and spread them out so your AE Party members cannot trivialise the Encounter easily. Put in reenforcements if the fight goes to smooth due to lucky dice.
Try this and give us Feedback please.
SS / GWM is still requiring to hit. Lets asume a mid Level Party with maxed attack stats so gives you +5 and +3 from the prof.
So that is +8 and lets say another +2.5 from bless.
That means +10 to +11 for them to hit in a normal combat Scenario. with GWM / SS this turns into +5 to +6 (due to the -5)
If they still hit reliantly with their Cookie cutter Modus on then your mobs seem to have AC of Maximum 15 if at all or your Players use fudged dice.
Make a test in your next game session before pulling up any obscure houserules for sneak attack:
use some e.g. hobgoblins clad in plate and shield, they do not even have to have that many hitpoints, but let them have AC 20 and lets see how your SS / GWM fare against these. Of yourse take an adequate number and spread them out so your AE Party members cannot trivialise the Encounter easily. Put in reenforcements if the fight goes to smooth due to lucky dice.
Try this and give us Feedback please.
Zardnaar
Legend
I have, the average AC in the MM is 14.5 apparently, the other day my players were hitting AC 18-21 with disadvantage at level 5. Bless helps out of course (they used it in that situation), but advantage is really easy to get and a lot of classes have various ways of getting it or providing it. A light cleric can cast faerie fire on the Hobgoblins for example (or just use radiance of the dawn save or die in effect), a shield master fighter knocks them prone, a bard can cast faerie fire or use bard dice, at higher level you can Greater Invisibility. Mastermind Rogues can give out advantage as a free action. Any spell that inflicts paralysis also grants advantage.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
I think it's always a good idea to throw in some high AC enemies anyway, a lot of 5e monsters have low ACs and high hp. Will-o-Wisps are one creature that has high AC straight out of the MM.
In that case I would suggest you have been a bit too generous with magic weapons. Bring in some rust monsters.
In that case I would suggest you have been a bit too generous with magic weapons. Bring in some rust monsters.
Well then let the hobgoblins be acompanied by a shaman who does a Bane (?) Spell to Counter the bless and another to cast something else to give them disadvantage to cancel that out.
If they hit AC 18 -21 reliantly at level 5 with disad, then somethings foul with the dice.
I Play a ranger with SS feat Dex 16, at Level 5 with disad i would not dare to turn it on, and even without it i would only use it on average AC mobs if i got a bless from my parties cleric active. I wished i had taken the stat increas instead but the biggest Advantage SS has given me so far is to ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover tbh. The +10 feat is in use only very context specific, means if i am sure the mob has an ac of 13-14 max. I am the glass canon of the Party, the other heavy hitter is a dwarf barb. He does damage much more reliable although he does not have GWM.
If they hit AC 18 -21 reliantly at level 5 with disad, then somethings foul with the dice.
I Play a ranger with SS feat Dex 16, at Level 5 with disad i would not dare to turn it on, and even without it i would only use it on average AC mobs if i got a bless from my parties cleric active. I wished i had taken the stat increas instead but the biggest Advantage SS has given me so far is to ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover tbh. The +10 feat is in use only very context specific, means if i am sure the mob has an ac of 13-14 max. I am the glass canon of the Party, the other heavy hitter is a dwarf barb. He does damage much more reliable although he does not have GWM.
I'd let the Rogue have a familiar somehow which would give him advantage on most attacks which should help get the most from Sneak Attack and also up the % of crits. An Owl would make a great familiar for a Rogue.
Or let the Rogue learn some kind of spell somehow that would help with hiding or sneaking. Even if it's a once per day thing.
I think Rogues do ok in DPR, but I agree the character needs to be played to it's strengths and that is skills, stealth, picking locks, etc... moreso than DPR.
Often, when a player is unhappy with a Rogue, it's because he is not playing the Rogue correctly. Rogues are not the easiest class to play correctly. This player may benefit from a different class.
Or let the Rogue learn some kind of spell somehow that would help with hiding or sneaking. Even if it's a once per day thing.
I think Rogues do ok in DPR, but I agree the character needs to be played to it's strengths and that is skills, stealth, picking locks, etc... moreso than DPR.
Often, when a player is unhappy with a Rogue, it's because he is not playing the Rogue correctly. Rogues are not the easiest class to play correctly. This player may benefit from a different class.
