D&D 5E A question for the 5e Experts about the Monk class

[Eilathen]

Hey guys,

So i have been playing a good portion of DnD 5e lately. And i quite like it.

Now i am thinking about playing a monk in our next campaign but when i looked at the class in the PHB an idea immediately sprang to my mind:

The combination of two of the monastic traditions in the book would let me more or less play Avatar, the last airbender Monk (Way of the Open Hand and Way of the Four Elements)...and i'd love that.

Now my question for the 5e experts: do you think that would unbalance the game too much? Or is combining two monastic traditions not that much of a power up?

My reasoning/view at the moment is this (but i am definitely not an expert yet) :

first of all, it makes a lot of in-world sense to be able to combine traditions...lots of stories tell about martial artists that wandered the world and learn from different monasteries and masters to combine the styles and found a new warriors-art. You get the gist.

second of all, in game terms, i am under the impression that it does not step on any niches of other classes and it does not so much give a huge power-up as it gives a bit more versatility (especially in using your Ki points).
After i have seen how powerful and versatile Wizards and Bards are, i don't think this would somehow top that.

But again, not an expert as i have not been studying 5e builds in any detail.

What do you guys think? Would you allow something like that in your campaigns?

 

[Inchoroi]

Oh, lord. Yes, you'd easily be the most broken character in the group. However, that being said, out of all the monk archetypes, Way of the Four Elements is the weakest; by no means is it underpowered, per se, but it's not got the same oomph of the other subclasses. I believe someone on reddit rewrote the archetype, though, to fix it. I'll see if I can go find it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

After reviewing the way of the 4 elements monk again I see it this way:
Lots of trap options but good enough.
Elemental attunement is cool. Not as powerful as other tradition benefits at that level but cool and useful.
Water shaping is also cool. The damage options are rather bad. Especially the damage spells.
Fireball is an exception. Shatter is ok...ish.
The jump spell is not too useless. If it comes up in your games. Step of the wind plus jump is nice.
Fly spell with con save proficiency not too far away: sign me in.
Stoneskin seems good at first but it is useless after a single level.
So. I would not combine both traditions. You don't need open hand techniques. You can do well with just the elemental disciplines. The monk base class would do well enough without any subclass. It is strong if you use mobility to your advantage and the elemental monk can add quite a bit to that.

 

[TwoSix]

Oh, lord. Yes, you'd easily be the most broken character in the group. However, that being said, out of all the monk archetypes, Way of the Four Elements is the weakest; by no means is it underpowered, per se, but it's not got the same oomph of the other subclasses. I believe someone on reddit rewrote the archetype, though, to fix it. I'll see if I can go find it.

This is sarcasm, right? Monk has relatively little of its power baked into its subclasses, tacking on the weakest subclass onto a decent one would hardly be problematic. There's very little synergy provided by the different options, which is where you have to be concerned with "broken" options. You can't break anything by being versatile.

 

[MarkB]

One of the Way of Four Elements monk's major weaknesses is that it doesn't get enough ki points to power its abilities. If you're tacking on another subclass as well, you'll burn through them even faster.

 

[Li Shenron]

The combination of two of the monastic traditions in the book would let me more or less play Avatar, the last airbender Monk (Way of the Open Hand and Way of the Four Elements)...and i'd love that.

Now my question for the 5e experts: do you think that would unbalance the game too much?

Sounds like you intend to gain all the benefits of both archetypes for the same character. I'd allow something like that only in a game where every PC gets the same benefit, it could be an interesting experiment, but not in a game along regular characters.

But on the other hand, I'd allow you to mix the two traditions, so that each time you gain a feature from a monastic tradition you could pick either, but not both. In this particular combination there are no problems.

 

[Guest 6801328]

What does Open Hand add thematically? Sure, it's got useful/cool abilities, but what part is necessary for the concept?

 

[Eilathen]

I like the kung-fu-y-ness of it. Namely Open Hand Technique and Quivering Palm. That being said, most of the stuff at higher levels wouldn't come up anyway...in either of the traditions. Why? Because we most often never play that long (aka do not reach the necessary levels). That's another reason why i estimated that it will not really be a problem of "that character is too powerful". But i am still also interested in an overall (aka all the levels) estimation of the situation.

And yes, i was indeed thinking getting all of the things per tradition. But i could see giving the first one when you normally get a tradition (3rd lvl) and the second one maybe later? For example 2 or 3 levels later? I don't know. Although for this group, again, the problem is we most often only play to level 10 ish .
I mean i get the "you have to choose between the things you get" but then it kind of defeats the purpose that i had in mind.

Anyway, thanks for all the answers! I appreciate it. Our experience in playing 5e is still limited, so getting your votes helps.

 

[jaelis]

I think WotFE is a pretty good model for Avatar by itself; don't forget you still get the regular martial arts stuff, including stunning strike.

That said, WotFE is challenging because of the lack of ki and the small number of disciplines learned. If I were after this concept, I would try to talk my DM into strengthening the subclass in its own right, rather than trying to combine with open hand. (Open hand by itself is pretty decent.) At my table I just blanket reduce the cost of all disciplines by 1 ki, and give two disciplines plus elemental attunement at level 3.

I don't think combining open hand and four elements would be broken per se, but I don't think it would work well. I think you'd find yourself mostly playing an open hand monk, with just occasional element magic. That's not what you want if you're after the avatar concept.

 

[jgsugden]

The only abilities you gain that are not uses of Ki points, which you'll already be sharing with your stuns, step of the wind, patient defense, flurry) are some healing at 6 and sanctuary at 11. I wouldn't be worried about it as a DM. In my game I'd buff the monk considerably... but so far nobody really wants to play one (even knowing there would be buffs).