Player asked for a favour: MC Barbarian-Warlock

[tglassy]

Barbarians already use emotion as power. Their rage, which is an emotion, fuels their strength. What the player is asking, that the rage fuels his emotion, doesn’t actually make sense. The Barbarian didn’t get the extra strength from strength. He didn’t get pumped and that gave him damage resistance. He got MAD.

So no, to be honest his question is rather silly. Go with it if you feel it should be ok, but would force the advantage from Rage to be Charisma, too. Not sure where the resistance would come from, since he’s apparently just getting more attractive, or more forceful, when he rages, rather than getting stronger. Maybe his sheer force of personality makes the enemies not want to hit him? I don’t know. It doesn’t make sense to me.

I’ve had a Barbarian Wizard in mind for a while, wanting to see how that would work, but I’m not going to ask my DM to let me key the Rage off of Intelligence.

 

[Sadras]

Just as a follow up. I've denied the player the change - not because I think it's too powerful or anything like that, but because it could set a precedent and it creates a situation where I feel like a hypocrite if I'm firm with the rules regarding everyone else.

 

[FrogReaver]

Just as a follow up. I've denied the player the change - not because I think it's too powerful or anything like that, but because it could set a precedent and it creates a situation where I feel like a hypocrite if I'm firm with the rules regarding everyone else.

Probably a good call. Some groups can handle a hypocrite DM. Other's cannot. Whatever makes for the most fun.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Rage itself is great when combined with armor of agathys. The enemy might just kill himself trying to shave off the temporary hp.
Just a single level of barbarian is enough to do it in crucial situations.
I'd go for a

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I have a player who wishes to run with the theme of a Barbarian believing his totem animal is guiding him (i.e Warlock Patron). I have no issue with the theme, in fact I'm very much a fan of it.

However he would like to modify two class features of the Barbarian and it is this request which is causing me concern, so I'd like to get the collective's input on the matter.

He would like the Barbarian's Rage and Reckless Attack to be powered via emotion (Charisma) and not brute Strength (refer underlined). He is wanting to MC into a Warlock, specifically the Hexblade (refer Xanathar's page 55) because of the below power, so he'd like to synergise the two.

HEX WARRIOR
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two -handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls.

RAGE (refer PHB)
When you make a melee weapon Attack using Strength, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll. This bonus increases as you level.

RECKLESS ATTACK (refer PHB)
Starting at 2nd level, you can throw aside all concern for defense to Attack with fierce desperation. When you make your first Attack on Your Turn, you can decide to Attack recklessly. Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon Attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but Attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn.



Would you allow it at your table?

I have given this some thought, and have to conclude that it is potentially game-breaking.

Here is why: Elven Accuracy feat.

Elven Accuracy combined with Reckless Attack and Brutal Critical would be massively powerful. But this is forbidden because Elven Accuracy doesn't work with Strength based attacks. However, Elven Accuracy DOES work with Cha based attacks.


Even if your player is not an elf, you could have another player create an elven barbarian with a single level hexblade and demand to be allowed to use this exploit.

 

[ccs]

I have given this some thought, and have to conclude that it is potentially game-breaking.

Here is why: Elven Accuracy feat.

Elven Accuracy combined with Reckless Attack and Brutal Critical would be massively powerful. But this is forbidden because Elven Accuracy doesn't work with Strength based attacks. However, Elven Accuracy DOES work with Cha based attacks.


Even if your player is not an elf, you could have another player create an elven barbarian with a single level hexblade and demand to be allowed to use this exploit.

And if the player decides to try & push it into this game breaking range? THEN you tell them NO.
Just because A+B+C = broken is not a good reason to reject A+B.

As for players who demand something? They get told NO simply on principle.
Doesn't matter what their combo is.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And if the player decides to try & push it into this game breaking range? THEN you tell them NO.
Just because A+B+C = broken is not a good reason to reject A+B.

As for players who demand something? They get told NO simply on principle.
Doesn't matter what their combo is.

The DM, like any umpire, needs to be CONSISTANT in their rulings.

If you allow one player to have something but not another, it looks like favouritism, the players will quite justifiably get pissed off, and find themselves another DM.

There is no fair basis to forbid A+C, or B+C. Therefore there is no fair basis to forbid A+B+C, especially since the order doesn't matter. Your elf can't take Elven Accuracy because they have levels of both Barbarian AND Warlock? Your barbarian can't multiclass to Warlock because they have Elven Accuracy? Your warlock can't multiclass to barbarian because they have Elven Accuracy? There isn't any way to do that without coming across as completely unfair and arbitrary.

 

[Zardnaar]

I have seen a warlo k barbarian didn't work so well. To many bonus action.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Personally, CHA seems to be a ‘willpower’ thing, and Rage is the antithesis of that. It’s a complete lack of willpower. Unrestrained fury and instinct with the physical blotting out the mental. Any UK people of a certain age might remember when Kevin Keegan was manager of Newcastle Utd. He would normally be described as having a high CHA but when he lost it in an interview saying he would love it, love it, if Newcastle beat Man Utd to the title he was Raging. No charisma, no control. So for me, anyway, the two don’t really go together. Just my tuppence worth.

 

[Sadras]

No. I don't change the rules to make a character concept convenient. I'm afraid this guy would need to have a good strength and a good charisma to make his concept work- and that, I feel, is how it should be.

As for players who demand something? They get told NO simply on principle.
Doesn't matter what their combo is.

I'm pretty much a conservative DM playing a somewhat gritty-styled D&D. At times, I will question if I'm too unyielding and unforgiving, hence my initial post.