D&D 5E Low Level Wizards Really Do Suck in 5E

[Ruin Explorer]

5e doesn't have many of the same issues that low level Wizards in 3e and other editions had. A single Goblin can't even down a level 1 wizard in 1 hit in 5e (except for criticals). Any goblin hit in earlier editions could kill the level 1 wizard.

Are you joking?

You say it doesn't have "many", but list one peculiar and specific one that's applicable only at L1 and isn't, by your own admission, even full true. It's also a change made for all classes, not just Wizards.

The same basic issues that have always afflicted Wizards at level 1-4 still do. Low HP and AC meaning they're relatively very easy to kill. Tiny number of spells/day (possibly worse than 2E with good stats/specialization) meaning most of their time is spent on ranged attacks doing a very dubious amount of damage (with it's throwing daggers or spamming a cantrip isn't a huge difference - and even in 5E, actual attacks are often better than cantrips). Tiny selection of spells that actually have a strong impact at levels 1-4, and are thus valid choices to memorize.

You can definitely out damage every other class, just have to be creative with it.

At low levels, which is what this thread is about? No. The simple length of fights relative to the number of spells you have means that isn't true. Fire bolt averages 5.5 damage so is equivalent to a dagger with 16 Dex (possibly with a slightly better to-hit chance). Most other characters will be doing significantly more damage per attack in addition to having other options.

Once you get into the mid and high levels, it can easily become true though (depending on opportunities).

 

[Spastik]

At low levels, which is what this thread is about? No. The simple length of fights relative to the number of spells you have means that isn't true. Fire bolt averages 5.5 damage so is equivalent to a dagger with 16 Dex (possibly with a slightly better to-hit chance). Most other characters will be doing significantly more damage per attack in addition to having other options.

Once you get into the mid and high levels, it can easily become true though (depending on opportunities).

Dragon's breath is a second level spell and your familiar is a lvl 1 ritual, so that is 2d6 damage per round for 10 rounds free of your own actions. Cast suggestion and now you have another being doing damage for you, your second level 2. Now throw some firebolts etc and you are king of the battle. That is just one scenario I ran through recently, there are a lot more examples, you just have to be creative. Not to mention if you go abjuration, with the ward, mage armor, and ability to cast shield you will have just as much survivability or more than any other class. If you make poor decisions and don't use mage armor or shield, have low dex and con and don't let the meat shields take the front, you will be super squishy. Just don't do that lol

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Dragon's breath is a second level spell and your familiar is a lvl 1 ritual, so that is 2d6 damage per round for 10 rounds free of your own actions. Cast suggestion and now you have another being doing damage for you, your second level 2. Now throw some firebolts etc and you are king of the battle. That is just one scenario I ran through recently, there are a lot more examples, you just have to be creative. Not to mention if you go abjuration, with the ward, mage armor, and ability to cast shield you will have just as much survivability or more than any other class. If you make poor decisions and don't use mage armor or shield, have low dex and con and don't let the meat shields take the front, you will be super squishy. Just don't do that lol

Spoken like a true forum theorist, rather than someone who plays D&D at an actual table. You just blew all the level 2 spells you have in a single battle at L3 (2 out of 3 at L4). Both of which require Concentration. If you are claiming this actually happened in the game, both you and the DM made a serious rules error.

How many rounds, exactly, do you think your familiar will be alive for after you turn on Dragon's Breath?

You seem to think 10.

Given the highest HP any Wizard familiar has is a mighty 3, and the highest AC is a terrifying 13, I'm pretty sure you will get precisely one (1) round out of Dragon's Breath cast via a familiar in most cases before some enemy or another zaps what is potentially the highest-priority AND squishiest target on the battlefield, disengage or not. 2 if you are very lucky or plan it well. Anything more than that and either the combat was already won because the enemy is profoundly screwed (like it's literally unable to move), or the DM is going incredibly easy on you. Plus if they damage you and break your concentration it's over, so they have a lot of options.

Picking the most survivable spec and stacking spells to survive is kind of hilarious given the tiny number of spells you actually have. I mean, yeah it's not a terrible idea for living through levels 1-4 if that's the problem, but I'm assuming that's not the difficulty for Wizards level 1-4, but rather that they don't have much interesting to do. Well, unless your DM is making rules errors and you're doing like 1-2 encounters/day. Then I admit things are much better...

EDIT - Also wait, could you link me to this Sage Advice? If they're saying you can both use Dragon's Breath (the ability granted by the spell, unless I'm looking at a bad version of it) AND Disengage on the same round, I don't know how that's possible as both are Actions.

 

[Spastik]

Flyby on an owl isn't an action, its basically a free disengage. Although the spell lasts 10, he lasted 2 rounds before he got shot down and I used suggestion next as that plan wasn't working as intended lol. That's not an every encounter type thing of course, just like action surge isn't. Not sure why you think taking survivability spells on the defensive spec is hilarious, it's literally what the spec is made for. Abjuration wizards taking abjuration spells is kind of their thing. On top of that. those 2 spells are meat and potatoes for basically every wizard spec, abj or otherwise. The sage advice I was referencing was that a familiar can use dragon's breath since it's not technically an attack. If you are worried about survivability at lower levels, the Abj with those 2 is the way to go for sure. If you aren't worried about being squishy and want more of a blaster spec, then go another way. No matter what spec you choose, you do have a lot of options to help with damage so there is no reason to feel gimped.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Flyby on an owl isn't an action, its basically a free disengage. Although the spell lasts 10, he lasted 2 rounds before he got shot down and I used suggestion next as that plan wasn't working as intended lol. That's not an every encounter type thing of course, just like action surge isn't. Not sure why you think taking survivability spells on the defensive spec is hilarious, it's literally what the spec is made for. Those 2 spells are meat and potatoes for basically every wizard spec. The sage advice I was referencing was that a familiar can use dragon's breath since it's not technically an attack. If you are worried about survivability at lower levels, the Abj with those 2 is the way to go for sure. If you aren't worried about being squishy and want more of a blaster spec, then go another way. No matter what spec you choose, you do have a lot of options to help with damage so there is no reason to feel gimped.

I'm not "worried about survivability". I'm pointing out Wizards have the same relative issues with survivability that they always have. They are the squishiest class. You can certainly survive L1-4 fairly easily, like you could in any edition, by staying the hell away from the enemies. But doing limits what spells and tactics are viable for you.

Yes, you can cast Mage Armour and Shield. Mage armour uses up one of your fairly tiny number of spells and means your AC will still be as bad or worse as the other full casters. Shield is a great spell but it's a real "PLZ DONT DIE" spell and if you're casting it at levels 1-4 things have already gone south (at high levels much less so).

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm not "worried about survivability". I'm pointing out Wizards have the same relative issues with survivability that they always have. They are the squishiest class. You can certainly survive L1-4 fairly easily, like you could in any edition, by staying the hell away from the enemies. But doing limits what spells and tactics are viable for you.

Yes, you can cast Mage Armour and Shield. Mage armour uses up one of your fairly tiny number of spells and means your AC will still be as bad or worse as the other full casters. Shield is a great spell but it's a real "PLZ DONT DIE" spell and if you're casting it at levels 1-4 things have already gone south (at high levels much less so).

How's this. In earlier editions I worried about my low level wizard randomly dying. I don't have that worry in 5e.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

How's this. In earlier editions I worried about my low level wizard randomly dying. I don't have that worry in 5e.

Sure and I definitely agree that random death is drastically less likely in 5E. If people got the impression that was the concern, well, then I phrased it badly.

I just think that was a worry for the majority of classes - most for Wizards definitely, but I've seen it happen to almost every class under the sun (esp. when HP were randomly rolled), in every previous edition except 4E (where it was very hard to die, though I had players I was DMing manage it - failing two death saves then getting some kind of last-ditch emergency heal was more common though). I've even seen a 1st-level Fighter with 14 Con in 5E be one-shot to downed, and then hit so hard he straight up died the next round. I wouldn't call that random though. He was living on the edge and died a hero.

It's those semi-predictable deaths that make the squishiness of the Wizard still an issue that impacts gameplay (and probably a fine one but it really helps to limit Wizards further at a level range when they're really limited). Like, you don't go stand in melee as a Wizard if you can help. Sure, maybe you're a Dwarf with Dwarf weapon and armour proficiencies, but broface, you don't have many HP, and actually your AC is pretty much the same as that naked Elf (who also has a better attack and damage bonus and is standing far, far away with a longbow).

 

[gyor]

During our last encounter, my 3rd-level arcane trickster rogue made great tactical use of grease against some mounted foes (ouch) and sleep against a guy trying to flee the combat who we wanted to question.

I imagine if I had twice as many spells I'd probably be doing stuff like use silent image to erect false walls and cut off half the enemies, phantasmal force as a single-target lockdown (as an illusion it requires the target's action to make an Investigation check, instead of "save ends" like with hold person and most other lockdowns), and maybe tossing the occasional flaming sphere around for a while to dish 2d6 damage per round as a bonus action. I'd also like to point out that mirror image is a fantastic defensive spell that doesn't require concentration. Also I really hope you used true strike on the round before you unleashed scorching ray for the greatly increased hit rate and 26% chance to crit at least once.

Seriously, rope trick???

You can use minor image to create false walls and the like.

 

[gyor]

The OP forgets the wizard has access to rituals, Find Familiar and Unseen Servant are my favourites at low level because with cleverness you can get a lot out them.

 

[MotoMkali]

This is propably moot at this point but treantmonks guide to wizard addresses this. As a wizard you do not want to deal damage.
Cantrips: firebolt, toll of the dead (it is new but very effective), [minor illusion, mage hand, prestidigitation. Pick 2]
First level: find familiar, sleep, grease and a couple others.
2nd level: Heat metal, invisibility both great mirror image as well. Suggestion 8hr 1 save disable.

Part of your problem is your subclass abjuration has too few spells so your mileage with its features will be quite low. Maybe you should have taken divination (for use portent is amazing), evocation for damage, or illusion or enchantment for control (illusion if your dm is cool with the spells if not enchantment)

You seem to long for the days where wizards were 1 man parties as you could replace others with mercenaries. Now the classes are more balanced. As wizard for you it is utility and control. Damage goes to sorcerers.
You help others deal damage.