The Mechanical Impact of -5/+10

[FrogReaver]

X is just the damage the weapon does when it hits, accuracy is factored into the table itself.

The table doesn't factor in criticals, although it shouldn't change anything since both sides get increased by the same amount (5% of the average damage of the added dice) at all times.

So you now disagree with this? It seems you are now saying that crits do impact this. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[TwoSix]

And you're to eager to be right

The part of TwoSix's post I was disputing was that crits only change the maths with an expanded hit range.

Well, without expanding the crit range, every 20 is an autohit, so any accuracy penalties are irrelevant. The possibility of a crit can't impact the math of whether or not taking a -X penalty to hit is worth it, because for either case, it gives an equal bonus 5% of the time.

 

[TwoSix]

So you now disagree with this? It seems you are now saying that crits do impact this. Am I understanding you correctly?

LOL...Yunru is exactly right, hopefully Yunru feels that Yunru makes a compelling argument.

 

[Yunru]

So you now disagree with this? It seems you are now saying that crits do impact this. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, I was just to vague and sweeping in the statement, because I was replying to someone who was talking about critical damage, and thus expected intelligent people to make the link. The table doesn't factor in critical damage, because it boosts both tracks by the same. It does take into account a critical's auto-hit.

 

[Yunru]

LOL...Yunru is exactly right, hopefully Yunru feels that Yunru makes a compelling argument.

Happens more often than you'd expect.

 

[Yunru]

Well, without expanding the crit range, every 20 is an autohit, so any accuracy penalties are irrelevant. The possibility of a crit can't impact the math of whether or not taking a -X penalty to hit is worth it, because for either case, it gives an equal bonus 5% of the time.

Uhhh... what?
If you hit on a 19, you have a 10% chance to hit. With a -5, you still have a 5% chance to hit because of the auto-hit.
That's 20% less of a decrease than normal (hitting on a 11 would be 50% vs 25%).

To make it more clear, here's the accuracy of each, with the bits effected by crits and fumbles in italics and underlined.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Y[/TD]
[TD]-3[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Normal hit %[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]90[/TD]
[TD]85[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]65[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]-5/+10 hit %[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]90[/TD]
[TD]85[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]65[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[TwoSix]

Uhhh... what?
If you hit on a 19, you have a 10% chance to hit. With a -5, you still have a 5% chance to hit because of the auto-hit.
That's 20% less of a decrease than normal (hitting on a 11 would be 50% vs 25%).

Yes, but that has nothing to do with critting.

 

[Yunru]

Yes, but that has nothing to do with critting.

The auto-hit is part of scoring a critical though?

 

[FrogReaver]

Uhhh... what?
If you hit on a 19, you have a 10% chance to hit. With a -5, you still have a 5% chance to hit because of the auto-hit.
That's 20% less of a decrease than normal (hitting on a 11 would be 50% vs 25%).

You start talking about different things to many times in the middle of a conversation. It's a bad habit. Your chart is what everyone is talking about. The one that shows the absolute damage difference. In relation to absolute damage difference crits on 20 only make no difference in the maths. The difference doesn't change whether you crit or don't crit because both sides either crit at the same time or don't crit at the same time.

However, when the crit range is expanded one side can miss when the other sides crits. That will change the damage difference.

If your trying to talk about something else, please realize that everyone here is still talking about what you started the thread to talk about and that suddenly changing the topic mid-thread only tends to confuse everyone that was engaging in your thread topic.

 

[Yunru]

You start talking about different things to many time in the middle of a conversation. It's a bad habit. Your chart is what everyone is talking about. The one that shows the absolute damage difference. In relation to absolute damage difference crits on 20 only make no difference in the maths. The difference doesn't change whether you crit or don't crit because both sides either crit at the same time or don't crit at the same time.

You're trolling right?
Crits are an auto-hit. Of course that affects the difference in absolute damage because absolute damage is affected by accuracy.