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lowkey13
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As for Anakin, I think the fact that he was powerful with the Force and capable of things well ahead of his rank as a Jedi is clear. Their rankings are designations only....they need not be indicative of actual ability. That's the system the Jedi have in place. But if we're talking about raw ability, that system doesn't really apply.
Also, I think that a big part of Anakin's fall is the restrictions that the system placed on him, no? The Jedi are holding him back, so to speak. So much of what they do seems to be about avoiding the dark side than it is about actual Force usage. So in The Last Jedi, when Yoda and Luke kind of address the failings of the Jedi ways, I'd think that immediately comes to mind, no? That they were too hung up on doctrine.
In other words, we have no reason to think that training is an absolute requirement, or that the training must be of a certain duration. Luke's own training was incredibly brief compared to Anakin's, no? And he was able to avoid falling to the dark side and actually wound up redeeming Anakin by example. With maybe months of training.
No, it's like saying someone is able to block laser blasts fired by a droid while blindfolded seconds after learning there's such things as the Force and Jedi and Lightsabers.
If you want to make an analogy that fits, I'd say it's like someone finding out there are such things as screws, and then being handed a screwdriver, and then they build themselves a house.
I said Luke's initial training on Dagobah is likely somewhere between a couple of days and a couple of weeks. He leaves Hoth at the same time as Han and the others, and then they are pursued by the Empire and hide in the asteroid field, and then head to Bespin. The Empire arrived just before them and sets their trap. How long do you think they're in the asteroid field? How long at Bespin? The movie doesn't offer a timeframe....but seems odd that Vader would wait more than maybe one day to reveal himself to Han, and it certainly seems like it's about that long.
So how long would you say this all takes?
As for Anakin, I think the fact that he was powerful with the Force and capable of things well ahead of his rank as a Jedi is clear. Their rankings are designations only....they need not be indicative of actual ability. That's the system the Jedi have in place. But if we're talking about raw ability, that system doesn't really apply.
Also, I think that a big part of Anakin's fall is the restrictions that the system placed on him, no? The Jedi are holding him back, so to speak. So much of what they do seems to be about avoiding the dark side than it is about actual Force usage. So in The Last Jedi, when Yoda and Luke kind of address the failings of the Jedi ways, I'd think that immediately comes to mind, no? That they were too hung up on doctrine.
In other words, we have no reason to think that training is an absolute requirement, or that the training must be of a certain duration. Luke's own training was incredibly brief compared to Anakin's, no? And he was able to avoid falling to the dark side and actually wound up redeeming Anakin by example. With maybe months of training.
During the briefing, the commander says that the vent is two meters, and everyone in the room reacts. Chewie and Han exchange a look of incredulity. One of the pilots says that the shot is impossible, even for a computer. Luke describes it as not a big deal and that he's made similar shots.
While not definitively stated, I'd say this foreshadows that only Luke can make the shot. And what's special about Luke among them all? The Force.
Not really. Luke achieves his Return of the Jedi level of ability in far less than 12 years. Maybe as much as 1 year, but likely less than that.
Not according to some in this thread....according to what the movies show us. Luke is an incredibly fast learner, at least at first. Then he doubts himslf, and things slow down. Yoda is actually upset that he's not learning faster. And that's over a course of days.
Also, Jedi Knight is a title. Yes, we can assume those with the title must have a certain level of ability, but there's nothing in the films that says someone without that title absolutely cannot have the same level of ability. Actually, we know for a fact that non-Jedi can indeed be just as powerful in the Force.
Where do you get that from? I've no doubt it's been said somewhere, but I don't think it's ever stated in the films.
TFA introduced the idea of there being an "awakening" in the Force (it's in the title!), and while it's never clearly defined, it certainly seems to be a game-changer. It means that, whatever amount of 'rules' you think may or may not have been established in the previous movies, they may simply not apply at this point - not to Rey, and maybe not even to any Force user in the galaxy.
Cite please? I never got the impression from either Yoda or Obi-wan that Luke was advancing faster than they expected. Rather the opposite at some points, in fact.It was the old legends Luke, in canon it takes Luke 3.5 years to become a Jedi Knight and that is considered fast.
Exactly. His advancement in the Force was more to do with his personal growth than any formal training he received.Luke was a prodigy, child of the chosen one and he discovered a lot of things by himself and even Yoda says stuff like "I can teach you no more and "face Vader only then a Jedi will you be".
Is that timing established in new canon? There certainly weren't ever dates on screen in the movies.Lukes at Jedi Knight level start of RotJ (6 months after ESB)
Yes. Luke is different from Rey. He took a different journey, and faced different problems. Why are you so uncomfortable with Rey having anything other than a cookie-cutter duplicate of Luke's story?so you could say he is either a Jedi then, after Yoda dies- when I am gone the last Jedi you be", or at the end of RotJ as he comes to the realisation that smacking Vader/Emperor down isn't the path a Jedi would take. They were foreshadowing Lukes darkside temptation a lopt since ESB as well. Anger in the cave on Dagobah, fear on cloud city, force choking the Gamorrean in RotJ, losing his temper vs Vader (and winning).
In TLJ, Rey senses the whole island and is immediately drawn to its Dark Side nexus. In her search for answers she is drawn to go there physically. The trial she undertakes is different than Luke's in ESB, but it's similarly a journey of self-discovery that feels like a defeat for her, leaving her without the answers she was looking for.So his journey was longer/harder than Reys and he was fighting dark side temptation along the way. Rey has never been tempted by the Darkside or lost her temper really, Kylo tried in a way but he seemed to be tempting her with himself not the darkside as such. Obviously Anakin drew on the dark side more and eventually fell in RotS.
Luke is dead, but he's also a Jedi Master. Chances are that he's not actually gone.So Rey comes across as faster, better, more powerful, more perfect no training, and this is over 6 movies in cannon+ the cartoons let alone the 25-30 years of legends materials which are similar in most ways. Throw in them killing off Han+ Luke and Carries RL death and all the characters you care about are basically dead. Can't blame them for Carrie but they may have killed off Han and Luke to early. If I was going to kill Luke I would have done it in episode IX and even then thought long and hard about it.
Cite please? I never got the impression from either Yoda or Obi-wan that Luke was advancing faster than they expected. Rather the opposite at some points, in fact.
Exactly. His advancement in the Force was more to do with his personal growth than any formal training he received.
Is that timing established in new canon? There certainly weren't ever dates on screen in the movies.
Yes. Luke is different from Rey. He took a different journey, and faced different problems. Why are you so uncomfortable with Rey having anything other than a cookie-cutter duplicate of Luke's story?
In TLJ, Rey senses the whole island and is immediately drawn to its Dark Side nexus. In her search for answers she is drawn to go there physically. The trial she undertakes is different than Luke's in ESB, but it's similarly a journey of self-discovery that feels like a defeat for her, leaving her without the answers she was looking for.
Luke is dead, but he's also a Jedi Master. Chances are that he's not actually gone.
Then you can quote the lines where this is established from the scripts, yes? No. Please stop insisting on old EU stuff as remotely applicable.Time timeline in the new canon is the same as the old AFAIK as they are both drawing on the same sources (the movie).
Then you can quote the lines where this is established from the scripts, yes? No. Please stop insisting on old EU stuff as remotely applicable.