So far my biggest issue is that 6th level characters are "too epic". Their saves and skill checks aren't that far off from what 15-20th level characters are capable of. My party regularly gets in the 30's on many skill checks with combinations of advantage, expertise, and guidance. In fact, I can't remember the last time my group didn't get a least one 30 in a session (granted we tend to use skills a fair amount).
While yes higher level character are more durable and more damaging (and of course higher level spells give a lot of new options) when it comes to the bread and butter of skill checks, I find by 6th level the party is doing "impossible things" very commonly.
Ah, I see you struggle with the same thing our group does, but it sounds like it might be worse for your table. As one of the few experienced players at our table, I encouraged the others not to min/max at first level so they would have some appreciable room to grow and enjoy seeing the improvements. They listened a bit... but still most have at least an 18 or higher in a prime score and we're only 6th-level at this point. My character has nothing higher than a 15, but she is very well-rounded and also has no glaring flaws either! The DM is beginning to exploit some of those flaws in the others, and they are feeling their short-comings now.
While I understand the principle behind Bounded Accuracy, I agree with some others that they took it too far. You go from a +1 to +20 spread in 3E to a +2 to +6 spread in 5E! Crazy IMO! I know you replied in my "Proficiency vs Non-Proficiency" thread and thanks for your input!
The issue I've found in trying to change things is the ripple effect that I have to change so much (especially the monster stat blocks) that is doesn't seem worth it in the long run. I've played around with so many ideas at this point my head is swimming in them!
First off, we've removed guidance. It is a horrible spell and abused to a ridiculous amount. I suggest that first and foremost! If you keep it, just make it a flat +1 bonus and make it only last one round.
Another thing to create greater variance between lower and higher level characters is expanding the proficiency bonus progression. Here is an array of increasing proficiency bonus progressions I made. We are currently using the Max +8 option, and I am toying with pitching a higher version to our DM. I think you might be able to go as high as +10 without completely unbalancing everything too greatly. Either way, we use our greater/faster prof bonus with attacks, saves, and skills as usual.
While this creates a nice difference between characters of varying levels, the issue remains how to curtail the skill abilities at lower levels?
One option I have right now is that Ability Score modifier is limited to +2 to skills you are not proficient in. If you are proficient, the ability score modifier is limited by your proficiency bonus.
This does not apply to attacks, damage, and saves! So, at level 1 even if you have an STR 18 and proficiency in Athletics, your total maximum modifier will be +4 (+2 prof bonus, +2 STR).
I know some people will argue that the character with the STR 18 shouldn't have the same total modifier as a character with a STR 14. Well, there is a valid point there, but my solution at present is that at lower levels, even a proficient character has not yet learned how to harness all their potential into the skill yet. As soon as the STR 18 character makes 5th (RAW) and gets +3 prof bonus, their total modifier would increase to +6, while the STR 14 character would be +5. At 9th-level, the modifiers become + 8 and +6.
In comparing two STR 18 characters, one 1st-level and the other 9th-level, you would now have a +4 difference between their Athletics total modifiers, +4 and +8, respectively. I know it is a semi-artificial limitation and the reasoning is honesty weak, but it works to slightly mitigate the issue IMO.
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second option is changing how Expertise works. It no longer doubles your proficiency bonus, but grants advantage on the skill checks. Additionally, if the DC is so high you could not succeed on a natural 20, now you do (but ONLY if you have Expertise!!). For example, a 6th-level Rogue is attempting to pick a lock. In RAW, he has DEX 16 and +3 prof bonus with Expertise, so a total modifer of +9. But the DC is 30! In RAW, he automatically fails and has NO chance whatsoever of succeeding unless his DEX improves or his proficiency bonus. Sure, with Guidance he might, yadda yadda yadda, but we nerfed it so it doesn't apply to our table. Instead, with Expertise in our group, a nat 20 could still pick the lock and his total skill mod is only +6, not +9.
I'm curious if you think any of those ideas might help your table? Or if you have feedback on them, I'm open to that as well.
Also, how do you feel about the prof bonus as it applies to attacks and saves?
