So, you want infusions to be spells that require the caster to be holding an item to cast, restrcited by level, what spells they prepared that day, and subject to counterspell when cast.
So, spells with clunky mechanics.
No, I want Infusions to be as they are in the playtest (they pretty much nailed them, in my opinion), except instead of spending the "Infused Items" resource on them, you spend spell slots on them. Mostly so that I can do something more interesting than cast spells with the spell slots you people insist the class must have.
do you want them to be distinct from spellcasting, or not?
Yes.
Only the Artificer has to use a tool to cast a spell. How is this any different from your suggestion of making infusions cost spell slots to create?
It's just a spellcasting focus. They can use thieves tools or artisan's tools as a spellcasting focus. That's no more unique than a cleric using a holy symbol or a druid using holly and mistletoe instead of a staff. I don't understand how you can honestly think that's remotely similar to spending spell slots to make things like Many Handed Pouches.
I agree! They did it just fine in the current iteration of the Artificer.
Yes, they did. Infusions are a great bit of design. I just want a character that does that, and doesn't cast spells. Since apparently it's not Eberron if the Artificer doesn't cast spells, and apparently it's impossible to make an Eberron Artificier with spellcasting as a subclass feature, I've moved on to suggesting that they let us use spell slots on something other than spells, namely Infusions.
But lets go down this road a bit. How long do the infusions for things like wands and scrolls last?
From the article, "Your infusion remains in an item indefinitely, but when you die, the infusion vanishes after a number of days have passed equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 1 day). The infusion also vanishes if you give up your knowledge of the infusion for another one."
Is it different from stuff like repeating shot and many handed pouch (another thing that is entirely unique to artificers, btw)?
No. I'm literally suggesting that you be able to spend spell slots to do more of those cool unique things instead of casting more boring spells.
If it lasts longer than a long rest, does that infusion "slot" remain used up?
Yes. Just like the "Infused Items" resource, which this would replac.
Can you change an unused wand of fireballs for a wand of dispel magic 3 hours after ending a long rest, or only during a long rest?
During a long rest.
How is the costing of spellstoring items determined?
Good question. Perhaps by the level of the spell stored and the slot expended to create the item. The Spell Point conversion rate from the Sorcerer's Flexible Casting might be a good place to start.
Can the party fighter use an infused wand of fireballs, or only the artificer themself? If it can be passed off to other creatures, how do you balance that? If not, how is it different from the artificer casting the spell, since it clearly is coming from their own power, not the item itself?
Sure. The party fighter can use an infused Enhanced Weapon, so I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use an infused wand of fireballs. That's also part of what makes it an item as opposed to just a spell you cast with your thieves' tools instead of a staff. I don't think it would be particularly unbalanced, given the inherent limitations of the Infuse Item feature.
How do you explain the idea that the magic comes from the item, if it requires the Artificer to make the item? If they can imbue that item with fireball, how the hell does that translate to them not making a fireball under their own power?
If they can do this without any special power of their own, like TOny Stark or Green Arrow, why can't my tinker/magic item crafting rogue make infusions? Why isn't this whole system just part of the crafting rules?
Me, personally? I don't worry about it. I don't ever use my spell slots to cast spells, I just use them to infuse items, and I narrate it as my character having strong magical potential, but being unable to cast spells, perhaps due to lack of training or some form of disability, but channels that magical energy into items instead to overcome that limitation.
If I wake up from a night's sleep and have 6 matches, every single day, no matter what, how is that different from is I wake up with the abiity to make fire come out of my pinky, in the same size, for the same duration, as a match, 6 times a day?
The matches can be lost, stolen, destroyed, stored and used at your leisure, handed to a friend, etc.
Description. That's literally it. You're demanding extra mechanics to separate things that are literally non-distinct in terms of what the character can accomplish in a day.
No, I'm not. Spell storing items can quite literally do things spells cannot. See the match example.
You have literally been saying that they should be casting spells by making a wand that casts the spell, while claiming that the class has nothing that is unique. You made false claims, I corrected them with examples.
I have never claimed the class does nothing unique. I said that "casting spells and describing them as something other than spells" is not a unique thing the class does.
One more question. How would tracking how many charges of fireball the infusion wand would be able to cast work? Do you want to have to determine during a long rest exactly how many charges of each spell you've stored in items you have for the day? 3 detect magics, 4 magic missiles, 2 fireballs, 1 water breathing, etc? Because if so, that's just old school vancian spellcasting with a new coat of paint.
Really? You could make permanent repeating crossbows with old-school Vancian spellcasting? Your spells could be transferred to other people? You could have your prepared spells stolen? Man, old-school Vancian was pretty different than I remember.
I presented plenty of counter points in the post you quoted. At this point, it's clear that you simply refuse to acknowledge or consider the points of anyone who disagrees with you. Feel free to make an artificer that meets your requirements. Most players want what's being offered.
Just because I didn't agree with your counterpoints doesn't mean I haven't been considering them.
Maybe there is a feature that could accomodate you, if you were willing at all to compromise.
My suggestion of spending spell slots on infusions is already a compromise. I'd prefer an Artificier that just didn't have spells, or at least had an option for playing without spells, and I think the easiest way to do that would be to make spellcasting a feature of one or more of the subclasses. But I was told that was impossible to make in a way that would satisfy the Eberron Artificier. So, I changed tac to suggesting that there be something the Artificer can spend spell slots on other than spells. Infusions seemed like a good candidate.
Spell storing item could be a low level feature, and you could cast a spell using a spell slot at any point to create a stasis bound spell in an object, that you could then hand to a friend. using it yourself is identical to casting it, except that you used the spell slot earlier. It can be countered just like casting from a wand.
If material components are required, they are spent when using the spell slot to imbue the item. You can reclaim your stored spell slots during a long rest, or let them stay in the object. You don't regain spell slots unless you use the spell stored, or reclaim the slots during a rest, removing them from the item. You do not recover spent material components, if the spell description says they are consumed by the spell.
I feel like this is exactly what I'm suggesting, only you can make a spell storing item at any time instead of only at a long rest. I'd be perfectly fine with that.
I'd be fine with this as a subclass, but there are some hefty balance concerns, and you're still a spellcaster, because you can't have a subclass that removes spellcasting as a class feature,
Whatever, I'm not concerned with it technically being "a spellcaster," as long as I don't have to actually cast spells and can use the spell slots on something that is not just a spell I used Tinkers Tools as a spellcasting focus for.
AND because spell slots by level and spell levels are already balanced, and the class is already too complicated to add "Infusion Points" just to obfuscate that it's a spellcasting class.
The class already
has "Infusion Points," I'm suggesting
reducing the complexity by getting rid of them and making spell slots the resource you spend on Infusions instead.
There would have to be an extra cost if your friends can use it. Perhaps a restriction on what level of spell you can imbue, or which ones can be used by someone other than you. Handing level 3 spell to your level 5 ranger friend is overpowered inherently. Magic items get away with it by being limited and having cost and rarity that help the GM adjudicate what items to give out.
Sure. I think that's design work worth doing though.
