D&D 5E A tweak for the Battlemaster fighter

[dave2008]

@Quartz and @FrogReaver , I need some help here. I added the ranger to my spreadsheet, see below. However, we don't have a ranger in my group and I am not very familiar with them. Just reading through the PHB (no feats) and generously applying duelist, colossal slayer, and hunter's mark I am still way below fighter damage after level 1. What am I missing?

EDIT: I caught one error. Still way off from fighter damage.

 

[Quartz]

EDIT: A quick check tells me that is potentially 141 damage (no accuracy) or 92 damage (65% accuracy) over 3 combats (and it could be more) that you are leaving on the table. That is a lot of damage, why are you not taking it into account?

I'm also leaving smite damage. As I keep saying I'm looking at the base damage.

 

[Quartz]

I decided to do a spreadsheet that covers all items and shows all the work. I have only added the fighter so far (see below),

Again I ask, why are you assuming the Fighter uses Action Surge for combat?

What's coming across to me is that it's because Quartz is more interested in reverse engineering the parameters of discussion to achieve a predetermined conclusion than in having a discussion that might require changing one's mind about something.

Bzzt! Thank you for playing but that is not correct.

 

[dave2008]

I'm also leaving smite damage. As I keep saying I'm looking at the base damage.

As we keep saying: Why?

 

[dave2008]

Again I ask, why are you assuming the Fighter uses Action Surge for combat?

Two reasons:

1. we are discussing damage potential, so it make sense to use it for combat
2. I know you can, but I have never seen anyone use it for anything other than nova damage.

 

[Esker]

Bzzt! Thank you for playing but that is not correct.

You say, without actually answering the question you've been asked repeatedly, the evasion of which prompted my comment.

You're arguing in such bad faith I don't personally see the point of continuing to engage with the content. Though I admire Dave's continued patience and courteous demeanor nonetheless.

 

[Ashrym]

Unlike the Paladin's radiant damage and the Ranger's Hunter's Mark and the Barbarian's Rage, you can't mandate that Action Surge be used for damage-dealing.

I'm up for claiming action surge can be used for a lot more than just attacking. If we wanted to completely omit it from damage we would need the ratio of times it's used for combat compared to the ratio of times it's not. IME, that ratio is negligible and I'm one of those players who would use the ability to speed dash across open ground to limit being caught in the open and avoid enemy fire (for example, and an actual use I've done).

If you can prove use of action surge outside of a combat surge significantly enough that it's worth calculating I'll add the ratio. Until then I'm not buying what you're selling. It's such a rare exception it's not worth disqualifying the ability from a damage calc.

Hunter's mark, OTOH, might not even be taken by a ranger and available for use.

 

[Esker]

I'm up for claiming action surge can be used for a lot more than just attacking. If we wanted to completely omit it from damage we would need the ratio of times it's used for combat compared to the ratio of times it's not.
...
Hunter's mark, OTOH, might not even be taken by a ranger and available for use.

Right, and even more than that, it uses concentration, which the ranger might reasonably want to use for Fog Cloud, Zephyr Strike, Healing Spirit, Spike Growth, ...

But really I'm fine including Hunter's Mark damage, so long as a reasonable adjustment is made for the action economy of it, since we're talking about DPR builds. It makes no sense, though, to make claims about one class vs another if you don't attempt to include regular sources of damage, even if they're not at-will. That's like saying all full casters are underpowered compared to martial classes on the basis of what they do without using any spell slots.

 

[Garthanos]

1. I know you can, but I have never seen anyone use it for anything other than nova amage.

What might make that more appealing? Can you fully re-roll a skill roll and avoid the implications of the failure of the first check?

 

[Ashrym]

What might make that more appealing? Can you fully re-roll a skill roll and avoid the implications of the failure of the first check?

Pretty much anything that takes an action can be done. The most common thing outside of attacking I've used it for is "can spend an action to..." like web or entangle so I could break free and still have an action to attack. A failed check usually means "no progress" and it's tempting to reattempt but the opportunity cost for when I really need the action surge prevents it. If I know I can short rest then it's more likely to be spent outside of combat, but then it's available again for the next combat so doesn't prevent being applied.