D&D 5E A tweak for the Battlemaster fighter

[Ashrym]

Even at 5th level, 2 3rd level spells every encounter is a lot!

It is. A person would be better off creating a new rest and call it casual rest or something. I don't think it's necessary but after trying the 5 min rest it was pretty clear warlocks were too good.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes we can. We ignore Action Surge for the same reason we ignore the Paladin's Smite. We're comparing the ordinary, base, damage.

Why? What's the point in that?

In a tough fight the Fighter Action Surges and the Paladin smites. The only time they won't be used is when fighting minions too feeble to pose much threat.

Whiteroom analysis is stupid and pointless.

 

[FrogReaver]

Why? What's the point in that?

In a tough fight the Fighter Action Surges and the Paladin smites. The only time they won't be used is when fighting minions too feeble to pose much threat.

Whiteroom analysis is stupid and pointless.

Actually... proper white room analysis is what allowed us to say he was doing it wrong.

 

[Quartz]

Isn't action surge ordinary base damage? Is a significant class feature. It is not an optional feat.

Action Surge only grants 1 extra action. Paladins get extra radiant damage every hit. Barbarians get extra rage damage for as long as the combat continues. Rangers can have Hunter's Mark up all day.

 

[Quartz]

Then take the rangers hunter's mark off. It's not ordinary base damage.

I explicitly addressed this earlier. At 11th level+ a Ranger can have Hunter's Mark up all day.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Action Surge only grants 1 extra action. Paladins get extra radiant damage every hit. Barbarians get extra rage damage for as long as the combat continues. Rangers can have Hunter's Mark up all day.

But things don't go on ALL DAY. It's meaningless. A typical adventuring day would go something like this:

Easy Fight (few consumable abilities used) 3 rounds
Easy Fight 3 rounds
Difficult Fight 4 rounds
Short Rest
Easy Fight 3 rounds
Easy Fight 3 rounds
Difficult Fight 4 rounds
Short Rest
Easy Fight 3 rounds
Difficult Fight 4 rounds
Boss Fight 5 rounds
Long Rest

Since Action Surge recharges on a short rest, and you don't use it on easy fights, it is generally usable once in every fight that matters.

 

[Quartz]

Unlike the Paladin's radiant damage and the Ranger's Hunter's Mark and the Barbarian's Rage, you can't mandate that Action Surge be used for damage-dealing.

 

[dave2008]

Action Surge only grants 1 extra action.

Which is 3 extra attacks, in 3 combats (assuming 2 only 2 short rests) for a total of 9 extra attacks. It is not insignificant and you still haven't accounted for BM damage, too. Why do you continue to refuse to account for this damage?

EDIT: A quick check tells me that is potentially 141 damage (no accuracy) or 92 damage (65% accuracy) over 3 combats (and it could be more) that you are leaving on the table. That is a lot of damage, why are you not taking it into account?

 

[Esker]

Which is 3 extra attacks, in 3 combats (assuming 2 only 2 short rests) for a total of 9 extra attacks. It is not insignificant and you still haven't accounted for BM damage, too. Why do you continue to refuse to account for this damage?

EDIT: A quick check tells me that is potentially 141 damage (no accuracy) or 92 damage (65% accuracy) over 3 combats (and it could be more) that you are leaving on the table. That is a lot of damage, why are you not taking it into account?

What's coming across to me is that it's because Quartz is more interested in reverse engineering the parameters of discussion to achieve a predetermined conclusion than in having a discussion that might require changing one's mind about something.

 

[dave2008]

@Quartz , I decided to do a spreadsheet that covers all items and shows all the work. I have only added the fighter so far (see below), but I will add the ranger some time soon. As you can see, if you don't account for the BM and surge damage you are leaving a lot of damage off the table. You have to account for these.

The green columns are damage per combat, the orange columns damage per day and the red text is keyed to number of short rests. Currently I have it set to the ideal of the fighter: 3 combats and 2 short rests. After I get the ranger added I will look at other combinations or # of combats and short rests.

EDIT: Also note that if you add magic weapons (currently set at 0) it changes the damage amounts quite a bit, more so for the fighter because they rely on multiple attacks.

EDIT 2: I revised the table as I realized I forgot to account for accuracy on the reaction damage. FYI, bonus BM damage is only on a hit, so accuracy is no issue there.