D&D 5E How do you avoid overshadowing while applying ability scores as rolled?

[Umbran]

This follows up my earlier thread. For my next campaign I want my players (who have high system mastery) to allocate their scores as rolled.

Can we ask why? Is this solving a problem, or something?

I ask because, depending on yoru desired result, there may be ways to reach it that we can suggest that don't have the pitfalls.

If, for example, you feel that the game is overall too easy, and want to scale down the stat bonuses you could...

1) Scale down stat bonuses, without touching character generation.
2) Use point buy, with a lower point total

Neither of which has the party balance problems you may now need to do extra work to avoid.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

The DM controls the spotlight. You can ensure that everyone has the opportunity to participate more or less equally over the course of a session, adventure, or campaign. Players can (and in my opinion should) also make sure their fellow players get as much screen time as they do. That's just good-spirited play in my view.

And on that note, the characters aren't competing with each other anyway. It's a good thing if someone on my team is great at what they do, even if I'm not as good at that same thing. Perhaps I'm good at other things or in other ways. Maybe I have to spend some extra resources like Inspiration from time to time to be as good or better. Perhaps I need to improve my player skill by striking a balance between relying on my character's bonuses and abilities and paying attention to the game and coming up with good approaches to goals that obviates the need to roll in the first place. That's a fun creative challenge in my view. If I'm not good at that sort of thing, the only way I'm going to get better at it is to do it. And why wouldn't I be up for trying to learn something new or improve my skill?

I see the game you propose as a thing full of opportunities, not rife with problems. Luck is not something one can control, but it can be mitigated with skillful play. And if I have a character that lacks in areas where my teammates do not, my fellow adventurers can pick up the slack, plus it will be that much sweeter when I succeed. So yeah, as DM, just make sure the spotlight falls more or less evenly on each player and character, talk to your players about what I say above, and I bet everything goes just fine.

Very much this. When I do get to play (usually I'm the DM), I don't worry about being "overshadowed" by my teammates. I'm glad if they are powerful/skillful/lucky and can help the group advance. And if my character is the best at a particular thing, I get the job done (or at least try) and don't hog the spotlight. Likewise, when I DM, I don't see players competing. We spread the spotlight around and the group works as a team. Sure, there are some fun role playing moments of interpersonal conflicts between the PCs, but that just adds to the story and the fun. When it is GO time, the party is cohesive. The players recognize that the party is greater than the sum of their parts and they depend on their varied strengths to achieve their goals.

 

[Umbran]

Very much this. When I do get to play (usually I'm the DM), I don't worry about being "overshadowed" by my teammates.

That's awesome.

Now, do you allow for how the entire gaming world isn't made of DM Dave clones? Or, maybe, that parts of the gaming world have seen aspects of this that you haven't? Or do you simply stand on how the problem doesn't exist if everyone is as virtuous as you?

 

[Bawylie]

That's awesome.

Now, do you allow for how the entire gaming world isn't made of DM Dave clones? Or, maybe, that parts of the gaming world have seen aspects of this that you haven't? Or do you simply stand on how the problem doesn't exist if everyone is as virtuous as you?

Why do you do this?

Why can’t a statement of personal experience just be a statement of personal experience?

What do you expect him to say here? “You know, Umbran, you’re right? I have been looking down my nose at every other d&d player on earth, due to my own virtues. But now you’ve set me straight. Thank you.”???

Should we append disclaimers to avoid incurring loaded questions?

Disclaimer: this post is made in good faith about my own experiences at my own games and says nothing about the experiences or games of others, which I am sure are delightful.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

That's awesome.

Now, do you allow for how the entire gaming world isn't made of DM Dave clones? Or, maybe, that parts of the gaming world have seen aspects of this that you haven't? Or do you simply stand on how the problem doesn't exist if everyone is as virtuous as you?

Well, I can only speak from my experience and maybe sharing that helps someone else. I never claimed otherwise as your questions imply. I know I’ve been the beneficiary of ideas and suggestions here, and for that I’m grateful.

Frankly, I’m a little confused at this attack, from a moderator no less, as I generally try to be positive here. Am I misinterpreting your intent? Maybe you are having a bad day?

 

[Oofta]

All I can say is that before switching to a different ability generation method is that you talk to your players first. Possibly individually or even an anonymous poll. Then listen to what they say.

Because I hate random rolls for stat generation and pretty much always have going way, way back. Without going into details, I was really excited to join a game only to be told we had to roll. When my wife and I asked if we could use an alternative method (this was 2E) the DM literally laughed and said that it was fair because everybody rolled. We didn't stick around for very many sessions.

I don't know what problem you're trying to solve. But since this isn't a short term or one-shot it's not something I would do without 100% positive feedback.

 

[R_J_K75]

Guess it comes down to what type of game you and your players like. If time permits as the DM Id take each player aside separately, have them roll 3d6 and assign their ability scores down the line. Have them decide from there what kind of character they want to play, without telling the other players until everyones finished their character. From there they can create their party and you can build the campaign around the party. One last suggestion would be to give the players incentives to keep their characters alive, and if someone does die then have the rest of the party try to get the resurrected. One thing I do is if someone dies in my campaign I start them off at a slightly lower level than the average party level, this takes away from the mindset of the players just rolling another PC whenever they want. Obviously as the DM tweak things as necessary to make sure everyone gets a character they want to play. Sometimes its those underdog characters and motley adventuring parties that can be the most challenging to play and DM for but end up being the most fun and memorable. Sounds to me you have a specific type of game in mind so forget rules and balance, make it happen.

 

[S'mon]

Why do you do this?

Umbran has to relieve all that moderating stress somehow, right?

 

[Maestrino]

If you want to eliminate the random spread-ness but don't want to go point-buy or standard array, what about this:

Each player rolls 3d6. (If you have 3 players let each player roll twice. Four players they each roll once and you roll twice. Five players, each rolls once and you roll once. Six players and everyone rolls once. Whatever.)

The six numbers generated are your new "array" for that campaign - players can use those numbers and assign them to whatever stats they want. If using this method I'd re-roll any results of 3, 4, or 5.

 

[Guest 6801328]

That's awesome.

Now, do you allow for how the entire gaming world isn't made of DM Dave clones? Or, maybe, that parts of the gaming world have seen aspects of this that you haven't? Or do you simply stand on how the problem doesn't exist if everyone is as virtuous as you?

I think this tone is a little harsh, but I somewhat agree with the sentiment: it would be great if everybody saw the game this way, but the reality is that a lot of players don't want to play Merry to somebody else's Aragorn.

It's also great if we try to show those players a different way of thinking about the game. And there's no guarantee they'll be converts.