D&D 2E (5e + PF2e)/2?

[Xenonnonex]

I tend to agree, but the question is where is that middle ground of enough simplicity and enough depth? If you used the 5e core game, but the micro feats and tactical class featurs and/or feats I think that would do it for me. There is a little more complexity in the build / level up, but actual play is basically as simple.

I'm not sure microfeats are a good idea, that's one of the poorer ideas of rpg design.

Now, if you have feats that level up at certain levels as your character levels up, that could work.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm not sure microfeats are a good idea, that's one of the poorer ideas of rpg design.

Now, if you have feats that level up at certain levels as your character levels up, that could work.

The idea is fine, execution in 3E and 4E was the problem.

Micro ASIs and capping ability scores fixes them. I have a list of 50 or so microfeats.

Having a floating boost a'la PF2 might not be a bad idea.

I also have a page of 2E houserules and can suggest bells and whistles options to use.

 

[Xenonnonex]

The idea is fine, execution in 3E and 4E was the problem.

Micro ASIs and capping ability scores fixes them. I have a list of 50 or so microfeats.

The "idea is fine" a decade ago, microfeats aren't the way to go I argue, just have your feats produce increment effects as your pc levels.

Just as how some racial traits and racial spell-like abilities are written.

 

[Zardnaar]

The "idea is fine" a decade ago, microfeats aren't the way to go I argue, just have your feats produce increment effects as your pc levels.

Just as how some racial traits and racial spell-like abilities are written.

It's opinion, I wrote up 50 microfeats, you can do whatever you like.

I'm not opposed to scaling feats either but you can have both.

How classes aquire feats or whatever is also worth a look.
PF2 may not have done it right YMMV of course.

 

[Shiroiken]

But this doesn't prevent people from hacking together their own modified rule set to play with.

People seem to do that for the fun of it, not because they just want to market it.

Well yeah! One of my favorite features about 5E is how easy it is to house-rule, since it's built upon a simple chassis. Of course, my modification move the game closer to AD&D, rather than 3E/PF, but both are viable options. When I looked at the first playtest release for PF2, I found the action system to be quite fascinating, but after a bit of time, decided the effort to add it to 5E just wasn't worth the effort (5E's action system works well enough).

 

[Xenonnonex]

It's opinion, I wrote up. 50 microfeats, you can do whatever you like.

I'm not opposed to scaling feats either but you can have both.

The quantity of something does not speak to the quality of something, see Pathfinder as a great example of that.

 

[Zardnaar]

The quantity of something does not speak to the quality of something, see Pathfinder as a great example of that.

Yep, I would still use a lot of 5E class design and race design.

My fighter isn't that drastically different to the champion. It's abilities come online sooner and my saves scale a'la 4E/OSR/PF2.

Also make the classes short or long rest 5E can be frustrating in that regard

 

[Xenonnonex]

Yep, I would still use a lot of 5E class design and race design.

My fighter isn't that drastically different to the champion. It's abilities come online sooner and my saves scale a'la 4E/OSR/PF2.

Also make the classes short or long rest 5E can be frustrating in that regard

The 5e rest mechanic is odd, maybe that's a place to work in and modify?

 

[dave2008]

Thanks. Yeah, sure can.

For creative reactions, I often use the "click rule" for traps allowing PCs to react right when the trap is triggered.

Another example was when the party was ascending a plateau using switchbacking exposed stone trails & rickety wooden walkways up to an aarakocra monastery, some 500+ feet up. At the time, no one in the party had feather fall. I realized that falling the full distance for a failed check would be un-fun. So I drew up a list of "falling reactions" tailored to the scenario.

Spoiler

• Drop prone at last minute (#1): Realizing you’re not going to make the jump/climb, drop prone at the last minute, clutching the walkway’s edge for dear life. You take no falling damage, but you drop anything in your hands and have psyched yourself out, suffering disadvantage on any Athletics or Acrobatics checks for the rest of the ascent.
• Fall into ruined cliff structure (#2-5): Fall 2d4 x 10 feet and roll 1d6 on Ruined Cliff Structures table.
• Grab an aarakocra (#3-5): Make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the aarakocra’s +2 Dexterity (Acrobatics); on a success, you stop your fall by grappling it, on a failure you and the aarakocra fall 2d4 x 10 feet.
• Grab a vine (#1-3): Make a DC 12 Dexterity save. On a success you grab a vine and take no damage! However, roll on d6 on Vines of Chult table to determine what you grab. On a failure, you fall 3d4 x 10 feet.
• Land on lower walkway (#1-5): Fall 30 feet, make a DC 12 Constitution save or crash through the walkway and fall an extra 2d4 x 10 feet to another walkway below, losing one item at random which falls to the ground.
• Scream for help (#3-5): Yell out for a kindly aarakocra to save you!

I've also seen a creative use of absorb elements (reaction) to suck carrion crawler venom spewing into an underground stream into the wizard/rogue's rapier – this was also an example of creative upcasting.

For impromptu forced movement, I often take creative liberties with natural 20's or 1's on attacks and saves, as well as with how players narrate their kills. Usually, this involves monsters being forcibly moved or knocked off edges when they're at low hit points. I had a pirate NPC who was knocked prone end up clinging to the sail's boom, which another PC used to their advantage by twisting the steering wheel, causing the boom to swing out over the ocean as part of an Intimidation check to capitulate the pirates' surrender.

Thanks for the examples! I remember that thread about the aarakocra monastery

 

[dave2008]

The "idea is fine" a decade ago, microfeats aren't the way to go I argue, just have your feats produce increment effects as your pc levels.

Just as how some racial traits and racial spell-like abilities are written.

That can work and would still be what I consider a micro feat (just a scaling one). What I am talking about is how 5e seems to lump 2 or 3 feats i n one to make it roughly equal to +2 ASI.