D&D 5E Consequences of Failure

[Guest 6801328]

Depends on what you mean by negative consequences of failure. I think that can mean simply not progressing.

I addressed that: lack of progression by itself offers no barrier to keep re-rolling until you succeed. Which means you have to rely on a metagame mechanism (e.g. DM fiat, or tacit player agreement to not try), and I further explained why I don't find those solutions satisfying.

Again, you don't have to agree with me about the conclusions, nor do you have to be at all bothered or inconvenienced by the implications. But do you understand the chain of logic, and acknowledge that I'm not just making up problems that aren't there?

 

[Oofta]

Just had a mimic in my game and I'm curious as to how you telegraph its presence? The mimic was in a crypt full of sarcophagi and was mimic-ing one in order to guard a secret door. Given that mimic's are indistinguishable when immobile what would have been a good way to alert the PCs to the threat? They'd already encountered some animated armor so knew the crypt was dangerous, but this one definitely felt like a bit of a "gotcha" when it suddenly pounced.

Isn't that kind of the point of some of those old school monsters? Probably why I never use them.

This gets into "invisible statue in the middle of the room" territory. You can always give some clue - there's blood smeared on the chest, a piece of cloth, the chest burps. Whatever makes sense to you.

 

[Oofta]

I addressed that: lack of progression by itself offers no barrier to keep re-rolling until you succeed. Which means you have to rely on a metagame mechanism (e.g. DM fiat, or tacit player agreement to not try), and I further explained why I don't find those solutions satisfying.

Again, you don't have to agree with me about the conclusions, nor do you have to be at all bothered or inconvenienced by the implications. But do you understand the chain of logic, and acknowledge that I'm not just making up problems that aren't there?

Sorry, multi-tasking while waiting for other stuff. That was an incomplete and incorrect post.

Thought I made it clear earlier. If I misunderstood the original post, I apologize.

 

[robus]

Isn't that kind of the point of some of those old school monsters? Probably why I never use them.

This gets into "invisible statue in the middle of the room" territory. You can always give some clue - there's blood smeared on the chest, a piece of cloth, the chest burps. Whatever makes sense to you.

I guess, I was just wondering how the breathing tell worked in a room full of sarcophagi, one of which is a mimic. Does the PC check each one for breathing? Seems like a 10' pole situation again.

 

[Oofta]

I guess, I was just wondering how the breathing tell worked in a room full of sarcophagi, one of which is a mimic. Does the PC check each one for breathing? Seems like a 10' pole situation again.

Yeah, you hit the same issues with a number of monsters such as gargoyles and any number of "you can't tell this is a creature".

In my campaign if you want to detect them there has to be some environmental factor indicating that they aren't what they seem. Maybe all the other sarcophagi are covered in dust, etc.

How you could tell it was breathing without getting close enough to be attacked I have no clue.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Just had a mimic in my game and I'm curious as to how you telegraph its presence? The mimic was in a crypt full of sarcophagi and was mimic-ing one in order to guard a secret door. Given that mimic's are indistinguishable when immobile what would have been a good way to alert the PCs to the threat? They'd already encountered some animated armor so knew the crypt was dangerous, but this one definitely felt like a bit of a "gotcha" when it suddenly pounced.

All the sarcophagi are in various states of aged decay, except one

The sarcophagi are in three neat, even rows, except for the last row, which has one extra.

There is a faint breathing sound in the room (EDIT: the PCs can hone in on it by being vewy, vewy qwiet)

There is a gauntlet strangely stuck to the side of one of the sarcophagi

 

[iserith]

Just had a mimic in my game and I'm curious as to how you telegraph its presence? The mimic was in a crypt full of sarcophagi and was mimic-ing one in order to guard a secret door. Given that mimic's are indistinguishable when immobile what would have been a good way to alert the PCs to the threat? They'd already encountered some animated armor so knew the crypt was dangerous, but this one definitely felt like a bit of a "gotcha" when it suddenly pounced.

Mimics have an acid bite, so you might describe the smell of bile in the otherwise stale air of the crypt. They also have an adhesive skin. Perhaps something is stuck to them in a way that they aren't stuck on other sarcophagi, like some papyrus scrolls from a shelf that fell over or a ceiling tile.

You might also have some kind of clue like there are nine niches or daises each of which has a sarcophagi upon it but there's a tenth sarcophagi that's been broken and tossed into another part of the chamber.

The journal of an archaeologist that previously explored this place might be found and have made a note of "...cunning monstrosities that took the form of the very things I sought to loot preserve in a museum only to reveal themselves as imitative predators when I heedlessly approached..."

I always look to how I can describe the environment in a way that gives a clue - and make environment that much more enticing to explore.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Sorry, multi-tasking while waiting for other stuff. That was an incomplete and incorrect post.

Thought I made it clear earlier. If I misunderstood the original post, I apologize.

I'm not really referring to the way you expressed the sentiment, but the underlying belief.

May I ask again, do you understand now why the absence of actual negative consequences...let's call them "setbacks" to distinguish them from "lack of progress"...has implications for the game, that I find unsatisfying, even if you do not?

 

[Oofta]

I'm not really referring to the way you expressed the sentiment, but the underlying belief.

May I ask again, do you understand now why the absence of actual negative consequences...let's call them "setbacks" to distinguish them from "lack of progress"...has implications for the game, that I find unsatisfying, even if you do not?

I agree that I view it differently than you do. I thought that was clear.

Listen, I don't really understand why people get so into professional sports. I mean, intellectually I understand it's a tribal thing and all that but I don't personally see the point. That doesn't mean that their enjoyment of the game is invalid.

You are entitled to your experience and your opinion.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I agree that I view it differently than you do. I thought that was clear.

Listen, I don't really understand why people get so into professional sports. I mean, intellectually I understand it's a tribal thing and all that but I don't personally see the point. That doesn't mean that their enjoyment of the game is invalid.

You are entitled to your experience and your opinion.

Ok.

Um....should I interpret that to mean that you don't understand what I'm describing, but that you no longer care to have me try to explain it?

I only ask because you accused me of making up problems that don't exist, and while you can apologize for the tone, the accusation is still out there. I would like the opportunity to help you understand that while the paradox that I experience may not bother you at the table, it does in fact exist.