D&D 5E 5e Sorcerer versus Wizard, which is better?

[Blue]

You will always at least get one spell off with Hound of Ill Omen, because the hound is a bonus action and is not a spell, so you can cast a spell using you action.

False that you will always get one spell off. It appears within 30', but the target can be up to 120' away. The Hound explicitly rolls it's own initiative, not moving on your turn. So your same-turn-spell will often go off before the Hound has a chance to close. It only happens if you have closed with your opponent to be within 30', which there are plenty of times not what you want to do for a number of reasons.

Also, it can't close with opponents that require flight or other special movement modes even if it's not killed. Which occurs more frequently at high levels. I guess you could summon it next to a low-flying opponent to get off a spell, but then it will fall. Does save needing the Heighten Spell metamagic, same SP cost.

Also if your small, mount the hound, if you have the mounted feat it will help keep it alive.

Mounting takes half your move, so you're further restricting how far away you can summon it.

Now you're spending an ASI/feat to keep alive a CR 1 creature at high levels. That's not somethign you should expect all characters to do to eek out a little more from a non-scaling feature. And since it has a programmed movement it might move through objects, which will just push you off. A foe could move behind total cover on their turn to force that. Alternately they can move behind others, and the Hound's move can allow them to get plenty of opportunity attacks on your sorcerer. Moving so you go through hazards as well. You're putting control over where you move, not on your turn, into the hands of your foes carries a lot of risk.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd flip the tables and build an NPC Diviner to fight the PCs.

That sure is one way to deal with it.
But as you probably know, this kind of player is the first to call ''bullcrap!'' when you give them a taste of their own medicine. On that note, I just no longer play with those players

 

[Mistwell]

Where do wizard players pick up all these spells?

Most wizard players I see pick up the 2 freebies per level.

More experienced players seem to go out if their way to get more.

It's like rituals. There seems to be an attitude of you get them automatically.

Every single published adventure so far has one ore more wizard spellbooks you can capture. In addition, while buying rare magic items is not a typical thing, buying common and uncommon low level scrolls is not that unusual for games. Filling in those low level ritual spells shouldn't be that big a deal.

 

[Mistwell]

You will always at least get one spell off with Hound of Ill Omen, because the hound is a bonus action and is not a spell, so you can cast a spell using you action. Example, summon the hound with your bonus action, then cast dominate person/beast/monster on the same target, or a twinned version of the spell.

Again, "The hound appears in an unoccupied space of your choice within 30 feet of the target. Roll initiative for the hound. " The hound does NOT act on your initiative. It acts on it's own initiative. And you do not want your squishy wizard within 30' of that melee foes to summon it much of the time. And you can't even get it close enough to some foes period, particularly at higher levels as unusual foe abilities and movements increase. It really isn't "always" as you get to higher levels.

But let me ask it another way, have you played a shadow sorcerer at higher levels?

 

[5ekyu]

Again, "The hound appears in an unoccupied space of your choice within 30 feet of the target. Roll initiative for the hound. " The hound does NOT act on your initiative. It acts on it's own initiative. And you do not want your squishy wizard within 30' of that melee foes to summon it much of the time. And you can't even get it close enough to some foes period, particularly at higher levels as unusual foe abilities and movements increase. It really isn't "always" as you get to higher levels.

But let me ask it another way, have you played a shadow sorcerer at higher levels?

I just have one question...

As I read it, if the enemy is within 120 feet and has an open spot next to him, I can summon the hound to that spot as my bonus action. That spot is "within 30 feet of the target".

Now, at that moment, since the hound is within 5' that target has disad on saves agsinst me.

So my dominate or blight or whatever goes against thst disadvantaged save.

Right?

I mean, sure, if there is no space open next to the target or it has some deadly aura thst fried everything instantly- then I might not be in a place to use it.

But barring it just not being possible to get to 5' on creation, it seems like I can bonus action and spell all on my turn and they save with disad.

What am I missing?

Are you reading the 30' as 30' from the sorcerer?

 

[Mistwell]

I just have one question...

As I read it, if the enemy is within 120 feet and has an open spot next to him, I can summon the hound to that spot as my bonus action. That spot is "within 30 feet of the target".

Now, at that moment, since the hound is within 5' that target has disad on saves agsinst me.

So my dominate or blight or whatever goes against thst disadvantaged save.

Right?

I mean, sure, if there is no space open next to the target or it has some deadly aura thst fried everything instantly- then I might not be in a place to use it.

But barring it just not being possible to get to 5' on creation, it seems like I can bonus action and spell all on my turn and they save with disad.

What am I missing?

Are you reading the 30' as 30' from the sorcerer?

Yes I think you are right and I think I misread it until you just pointed that out. Seems like the Wizard need only be in 120' of the target. Should work as you describe. My bad. So you can spend 3 sorcery points to apply disadvantage on the next save the target makes (which should be right away, after your bonus action use). It's a decent use of your sorcery points, though you will blow through them pretty quick if that's your primary use of those points. Good for those spells you really need the target to miss their save on, like portent. Though potentially you'll have more uses than portent gives you.

 

[5ekyu]

Yes I think you are right and I think I misread it until you just pointed that out. Seems like the Wizard need only be in 120' of the target. Should work as you describe. My bad. So you can spend 3 sorcery points to apply disadvantage on the next save the target makes (which should be right away, after your bonus action use). It's a decent use of your sorcery points, though you will blow through them pretty quick if that's your primary use of those points.

Well, there is also heighten which costs 3 for similar effect but is always just for one spell.
.

 

[Guest 6801328]

So you can use your bonus action to summon your hound next to TWO opponents, then immediately Twin a spell, and both targets save with disadvantage.

Yummy.

 

[Mistwell]

So you can use your bonus action to summon your hound next to TWO opponents, then immediately Twin a spell, and both targets save with disadvantage.

Yummy.

Yeah, true. Pretty cool.

 

[5ekyu]

Yeah, true. Pretty cool.

No.

"The target" is used throughout I'll omen to refer to the one you targeted with the hound.

The same language applies to the disad... " the targrt has disadvantage... " not "all targets within 5'"