What is the essence of D&D

[Garthanos]

The main issue was that to maintain balance, apart from the + items, they tended to be very weak especially the combat items.

Weak enough that they didnt over shadow the powers of heros. As I mentioned earlier this was actually something one could adjust to taste without actual huge impact. All classes were no more dependent on magic items than each other...

 

[S'mon]

20 percent return rate... LOL ... buy anything you want... mentality LOL

Well the item prices increase x5 per demi-tier, so with finding items 1-4 levels above your level, you can generally afford to buy stuff 1 demi tier lower; at worst 1 tier lower. A Paragon PC can buy Heroic Tier items and an Epic PC can buy Paragon items.

 

[Garthanos]

When you marry a given classes versatility to their items you need some system that assures that is followed through on. (Like my earlier mentioned "Fated Wielder" background) Random treasure tables? in practice failed as often as not (from my experience).

 

[Garthanos]

Well the item prices increase x5 per demi-tier, so with finding items 1-4 levels above your level, you can generally afford to buy stuff 1 demi tier lower; at worst 1 tier lower.

Yes it allowed the player to decide that a lower level item was more worthwhile than one at their current grade... ie it allowed player/character choice to impact.

 

[Zardnaar]

20 percent return rate... LOL ... buy anything you want... mentality LOL

Misses the point.

Boring magic items, more work for DMs, D&D the accounting rpg.

Also complexity.

Most magic items also suck a'la 3E so you are heavily incentivised to get the best ones.

 

[Garthanos]

more work for DMs,

What work?

I get if a player wants to align the feats and items and class features you have player driven and selected complexity.

 

[Garthanos]

The non-boringness is a question of story in my experience.... not having items more powerful than the abilities of those who use them.

 

[Zardnaar]

What work?

I get if a player wants to align the feats and items and class features you have player driven and selected complexity.

Encounter design.

 

[Garthanos]

In arthurian legend and even in the Movies they rarely gave excalibur super powers ... a recent movie not-withstanding. Excaliber was attributed as blinding an enemy temporarily when drawn and helping induce submission which was made a singularly used power in the movie Excaliber.

 

[Lanefan]

There was never enough cash around with a 20 percent buy back for a "buy what you want mentality" in the games typical play,

Yeah, 4e 'treasure parcels' weren't exactly generous compared to other editions, at least in the modules I've read and-or run.

However, if one fights the system a bit* and accepts that magic wielded by the enemies remains magical once those enemies drop then there's some reasonable loots in there sometimes. This does, however, require the DM to read the enemy write-ups carefully in order to figure out what they have; as their gear won't be listed under 'treasure'.

* - for some inexplicble reason, enemy magic items suddenly not being magical any more once the PCs get them seems to be a baked-in assumption in 4e, or at least its published modules. Internal consistency - what's that?

Mind-boggling.