D&D 5E Damage Spell Scaling

[DND_Reborn]

As an aside, our table switched to a simple spell point system and not slots. It worked better and allows for more upcasting and use of 1st-level slots (1 spell point in our system) by adding them up to higher power spells.

 

[FrogReaver]

They are senseable.
At what point does a cantrips out damage. A level 1 chromatic orb? At level 11. At that point you have 6th level spells. You can easily boost the spell to level 2 or 3 to outdamage the cantrip at that point.

Or the spell could easily outdamage the cantrip no matter what level it's cast at. Just like hold person, out controls every cantrip regardless of what level it's cast in and shield out defends any cantrip regardless of the level it's cast in and invisibility flat out supports the party better than any cantrip.

It seems to me that damage is the only thing that spells (n their lowest slots) eventually become worse than cantrips at doing.

You call that a feature (I don't see how). It's obviously a bug.

What's the maximum amount of people can you possibly hit with a level 1 burning hands? 6 of 3d6 each, that equals to a possible maximum of 108 damage. At what point can any cantrip beat that? No point. This is why your argument doesn't make sense.

So start with something single target like chromatic orb. It flatly get's out damaged by a firebolt at level 11.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I can give you tips on how to be a better player, but if you lack the capacity to understand, then that's a problem you have to solve. The class is not broken, your capacity to understand it is limited.

You really should refrain from insulting someone's intelligence. The class plays fine RAW, but this is an issue @FrogReaver has and is asking for constructive feedback, not blatant criticism.

 

[FrogReaver]

You really should refrain from insulting someone's intelligence. The class plays fine RAW, but this is an issue @FrogReaver has and is asking for constructive feedback, not blatant criticism.

What's funny is - it's quite possible that my wizards would run circles around his wizards LOL.

 

[neogod22]

Why would you boost a level 1 spell to level 2 or 3 when spells at that level already do more damage?

And even if you do so, your level 1 slot is still sitting there... what? waiting to be boosted yet again?

While your maximum damage with burning hands might be great, you aren't likely to get it. You typically get 2, maybe 3, targets IME. My post earlier directly shows how at 17th level Fire Bolt can be expected to deal more damage than Burning Hands in total.

That isn't to say there won't be times when different types of damaging spells (single target vs. spreading the damage out) will be desired, of course.

I see his point and I don't think his suggestion is crazy. It is good, but not OP. Personally, I missed the autoscaling from 1E and wish 5E had returned to it instead of "upcasting" using higher level slots. Especially when you consider the dismal number of higher level slots you will ever get!

How many spells do you expect to cast in a day? The number of spell slots went down only a little from 2e. There are still more than enough slots to cast only slotted spells at higher levels.

And I see you completely missed my point when giving the examples of spells. Like I stated before, they did the scaling the way they did on purpose, so even though it's an option to cast a lower level spell at higher levels, they make it so that you want to cast the stronger ones instead.

Your chances of rolling all 6s on 3d6 is a lot higher than rolling all 10s on 3d10 or higher, the chances of even hitting only 2 people with does more damage than firebolt up until level 17, and if you're a smart wizard, you can find situations to make spells like burning hands more advantageous.

 

[DND_Reborn]

What's funny is - it's quite possible that my wizards would run circles around his wizards LOL.

Of course, such responses only encourage him to retaliate... I would discourage that if you are honestly looking for serious suggestions and not something else.

 

[neogod22]

Or the spell could easily outdamage the cantrip no matter what level it's cast at. Just like hold person, out controls every cantrip regardless of what level it's cast in and shield out defends any cantrip regardless of the level it's cast in and invisibility flat out supports the party better than any cantrip.

It seems to me that damage is the only thing that spells (n their lowest slots) eventually become worse than cantrips at doing.

You call that a feature (I don't see how). It's obviously a bug.



So start with something single target like chromatic orb. It flatly get's out damaged by a firebolt at level 11.

So the last part, it takes 10 levels before the cantrip can out damage a level 1 spell. That means great scaling in my eyes.

 

[neogod22]

What's funny is - it's quite possible that my wizards would run circles around his wizards LOL.

If that was the case, you wouldn't have nade this post

 

[FrogReaver]

So the last part, it takes 10 levels before the cantrip can out damage a level 1 spell. That means great scaling in my eyes.

I talk about out damaging because that's easy to see and everyone comprehends it. On top of that rather obvious thing - the damage difference slowly diminishing as you level is also an issue - at some point it's better off not using a resource on damage when the damage in question is only a little better than the damage you get for free (allowing you to put that resource toward something else)

 

[FrogReaver]

If that was the case, you wouldn't have nade this post

Or... if that was the case you could understand what I'm talking about. See how it can go both ways?