I Might Have to Run a Bad RPG System Next Week!

[Retreater]

My group is on board to play one of the most celebrated published campaigns of all time "The Enemy Within" for Warhammer Fantasy RPG. The problem is that try as I might (as a veteran of many game systems) I can't get the hang of the rules (even after reading over the rules for 9+ months). And where I do understand them, they are cumbersome and terrible, putting D&D 4e to shame, IMO.
With all the talk of Bait and Switch, how terrible would it be to run the campaign in a more familiar system (D&D)?

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, I signed up to run a system I'd never heard of at a convention, once, didn't have much time to figure it out - beyond it used fairly large d6 dice pools - and I ended up, not substituting D&D or a good system for it, but simply running it the way I do D&D or W:tA when its out of its depth: ignore the rules, call for rolls that feel dramatic, and tell a good story.
If your players don't know the system, either, could work.

 

[S'mon]

I would worry that escalating hp would be a really bad fit for WHFRP.

WHFRP uses percentiles, right? So if you know it, you could use BRP or a BRP based system like Runequest, Stormbringer or Call of Cthulu. Ideal for horror gaming!

If you are using D&D, I suggest having REALLY REALLY slow level advancement, with a focus on equipment, social status, boons, minor magic items - anything other than level-up. What in 5e is a level 1-15 campaign should be more like 1-5 in a WHFRP campaign. I'd say you could divide XP awards by 10 & it'd work well.

 

[macd21]

DnD is not the system to run a WFRP campaign with.

 

[orangefruitbat]

Which version of WFRP would you be running (there are 4)? 1E (which TEW was originally written for) is a bit clunky but works.

2E takes 1E and systemizes it a bit. Works a bit better, but I think loses some of the original charm. You can run 1E adventures with 2E with virtually no changes.

3E is radically different, using different types and shapes of dice, cards and tokens. It actually works pretty well, but all the bits can get in the way. Would definitely require conversion.

4E is the newest version, and shares the percentile dice of 1E/2E, but with significant tweaks as to how success is mesured, damage is applied, etc. I really like it (it's my favourite edition of my favourite game), but I admit that the rules are not a model of clarity. On Reddit, there is a group dedicated to WFRP, and some FAQs that might help you understand the rules. There is a new, expanded version of the TEW being released by Cubicle7.

BRP/RQ/CoC is a pretty good suggestion if you abosulutely hate any of the WFRP rulesets.

If you were going to use 5E (which I I like, but not for TEW), this is what I would do. The WFRP setting is definitely less heroic than your average D&D setting. Combat is dangerous and brings long-lasting consequences. Characters can become powerful (at least relative to other people), but they aren't superheroes. The setting has a 15th-16th Century level of technology (albeit with anachronistic steam technology) - not medieval like most D&D:

*Cap PCs at level 5 or 6, and use super-slow advancement. (You might even break each level down into "sub-levels", where they get individual features or bonuses from their class just to keep things fresh).

*All spellcasting is risky - all wizards should be forced to rule on the wild magic sorcerer random magic table. (There are no sorcerer or warlock character classes - at least for PCs). There might be some good 3rd party supplements that flesh out the random magic effects

*Use sanity/madness rules from the DMG

*Use the gritty realism rules from the DMG

*Use firearms/explosive rules from the DMG

*I would use the lingering injury and massive damage rules from the DMG

*I would consider using the speed factor and hitting cover rules from the DMG

*Character's standing in the world is determined mostly by their background, not their class. Background is a minor feature in most 5E games, but for the TEW it will continue to be important.

*Use currency and equipment lists from WFRP rather than the 5E - this will do a lot for players to feel that they are not in a standard D&D setting. In fact, rather than start PCs with the standard 100 gp, I would get players to find the WFRP career that most closely matches their 5E class/Background combination, and have them start with the set of trappings listed for that career.

My group is on board to play one of the most celebrated published campaigns of all time "The Enemy Within" for Warhammer Fantasy RPG. The problem is that try as I might (as a veteran of many game systems) I can't get the hang of the rules (even after reading over the rules for 9+ months). And where I do understand them, they are cumbersome and terrible, putting D&D 4e to shame, IMO.
With all the talk of Bait and Switch, how terrible would it be to run the campaign in a more familiar system (D&D)?

 

[ninjayeti]

I'd recommend against it. While I love 5E it is a poor fit for the gritty, low-fantasy world of WFRP. I suspect you will end up with a watered-down hybrid that misses the strengths of both systems.

Have you considered testing out the system with a one-shot? (Free PDFs here and here.) Sometimes games play better than they read. While I haven't played the current edition I found the first two editions of WFRP to be fun, playable systems that were a refreshing change of pace (both in tone and mechanics) from the typical heroic fantasy of D&D.

 

[Retreater]

I would be running it with 4e Warhammer. We tried a one shot with pregens last week. It was a slog and very confusing (even as we got many rules wrong; ignored talents, criticals, and more rules just because it got too unmanageable.)

 

[GreyLord]

I would be running it with 4e Warhammer. We tried a one shot with pregens last week. It was a slog and very confusing (even as we got many rules wrong; ignored talents, criticals, and more rules just because it got too unmanageable.)

WFRP 4e is tougher to learn than 1e or 2e...combined. At least it's not 3e though.

I prefer 1e or 2e to 4e, and if running 4e I typically simplify it...a LOT. For example, in combat, it is simply roll under your percentage to see if you hit, without all the other special items one can do.

 

[Morrus]

My group is on board to play one of the most celebrated published campaigns of all time "The Enemy Within" for Warhammer Fantasy RPG. The problem is that try as I might (as a veteran of many game systems) I can't get the hang of the rules (even after reading over the rules for 9+ months). And where I do understand them, they are cumbersome and terrible, putting D&D 4e to shame, IMO.
With all the talk of Bait and Switch, how terrible would it be to run the campaign in a more familiar system (D&D)?

Which edition of WFRP are you trying to use? I've not found any of them difficult to understand, but it might help to know which you're using?

(Then again, the problems with D&D 4E - and it had issues - weren't that it was difficult to understand).

 

[Retreater]

Which edition of WFRP are you trying to use? I've not found any of them difficult to understand, but it might help to know which you're using?

(Then again, the problems with D&D 4E - and it had issues - weren't that it was difficult to understand).

The current edition, WFRP 4E. Here are a few reasons for our confusion and things that just seem not intuitive or that slow down gameplay as we try to figure out things.
1) 4 pools of expendable points that are all very similar, named similarly (fortune, fate, resilience, and [some other r-term I've forgotten])
2) keeping track of advantage points for characters and every enemy
3) hit locations, figured out by flipping the die roll (just a confusing extra step)
4) critical hit and miss charts
5) lingering wound charts
6) counting success levels by subtracting die rolls and comparing to the die roll of another person
7) adding success levels based on ranks of talents
8) several "special die roll"combinations that give different results (criticals, failures, spell mishaps all have different combinations)
9) advancing characters is confusing, spending XP at different rates

These are just the first few that come to mind. I'm concerned that the rules are so complicated that I won't be able to focus on the plot, mystery, characterization, roleplay, or anything else but run the game as a wargaming simulation.