D&D (2024) Interested in new dragon designs for 5e (5.5e or 6e)?

[MechaTarrasque]

I believe dwarf, dragonborn, gith, gnoll, gnome, goblinoid, grimlock, halfling, half-elf, half orc, kobold, kua-toa, lizardfolk, merfolk, quaggoth, sahuagin, shapechanger, titan, tortle, and yugoloth are subtypes, Some of them only show up in the NPC stat blocks for the AP's. I assume the Eberron book will add a few more.

Sadly angels, myconids, and modrons don't rate subtypes.

Conjure animals creates critters that count as beasts and fey, which basically means divine word can banish them (charisma save and most beasts aren't rolling in charisma).

5e isn't like previous editions where getting a type meant getting goodies. Getting a type in 5e mostly means you are vulnerable to spells that other types aren't (although there are some magic items that only attune to members of certain races).

 

[Yaarel]

It seems to me, there is no such thing as a ‘subtype’ in D&D 5e. This parenthetical categorization is called a ‘tag’.

The tag can be anything that helps to categorize the relationship of a creature to other creatures.

The official examples of tags so far, such as Elf, even Half-Elf, Dwarf, and so on, imply a ‘tag’ is identical to the term ‘race’, except the term ‘race’ can only be used for a ‘player character race’.

The tag implies, ‘goblinoid’ too is equivalent to a race, and Goblin, Hobgoblin, and Bugbear are subraces of the Goblinoid race.

In other words, the player character race ‘Elf’, can include subraces that are very different mechanically from the Elf that is found in the Players Handbook.

For example, it was possible to make the Eladrin as different from the Elf as the Bugbear is to the Goblin, and still give the Eladrin the ‘elf’ tag.

In the future, there can be an ‘elf’ that is really different mechanically, such as completely lacking an ability score improvement to Dexterity. For example, the Sun Elf might improve Charisma +2, and Intelligence +2, and still receive the ‘elf’ tag.



Oddly, the respective tags imply ‘demon’ and ‘devil’ are equivalent to two separate races of fiends.



Notice. Both ‘dragon’ and ‘giant’ are each both a type and a race. In contrast to the types ‘dragon’ and ‘giant’, the races per se are called ‘True Dragon’ and ‘True Giant’.

Hypothetically, it could be possible to tag a ‘True Dragon’ that existed in an other plane.

 

[dave2008]

Sadly angels, myconids, and modrons don't rate subtypes.

Those are odd omissions. With devil and demons being a tag, you would assume angels would be too.

 

[dave2008]

It seems to me, there is no such thing as a ‘subtype’ in D&D 5e. This parenthetical categorization is called a ‘tag’.

The tag can be anything that helps to categorize the relationship of a creature to other creatures.

The official examples of tags so far, such as Elf, even Half-Elf, Dwarf, and so on, imply a ‘tag’ is identical to the term ‘race’, except the term ‘race’ can only be used for a ‘player character race’.

The tags are not identical to the PC term "race." As you already noted, devil and demon are tags, but not races. The list of tags also includes yugoloth and titan. I guess you could argue that devils, demons, and yugoloths are a "race," but I certainly do not think they are. However, there is no reasonable way to describe 'titans' as a race since it includes such diverse things as: empyrean, kraken, and the tarrasque.

Clearly the tag (or subtype if you want) is not just race, though it appears to include them.

 

[dave2008]

I think its just the way they annotate the "race" of the "humanoid"

All races seem to be tags, but all tags are not races. The best example is the 'titan' tag, which is clearly not a race.

 

[Yaarel]

I view devil, demon, and yugolth as separate ‘races’. (Interestingly, the 5e Succubus is a fiend but not a demon.)

I suspect, angel lacks a tag (as somewhat of an oversight) because there are no other celestial races in contrast to it. Unlike the evil counterparts that divided into separate races by alignment, the good angels remain unified as a single race of any good alignment. But analogous to the subraces Drow and Eladrin being ‘humanoid (elf)’, the subrace Deva should probably be statted as ‘celestial (angel)’. It isnt a big deal, but a future printing could errata this.

I agree the situation with ‘titan’ is surprising. Nevertheless, I view titan as a race too. However, this is a race of primordial cosmic beings. They have nothing to do with natural evolution. Each primordial took whatever shape that it had affinity with. At least according to the Greek myths, beautiful titans could give birth to monstrous ones.



The tag ‘shapeshifter’ is notable. It isnt a ‘race’ per se, but signifies the defiance of a racial category. For example, a changeling is a race, except when one is not, and is temporarily being a different race.

 

[Yaarel]

Clearly the tag (or subtype if you want)

There is no ‘subtype’ in 5e because a ‘tag’ isnt a subdivision of a type.

For example, the ‘elf’ tag can be ‘celestial (elf)’ or ‘humanoid (elf)’ or whatever other type. Elf isnt a subdivision of anything. It is a racial tag that can become various types.

 

[Yaarel]

Conjure animals creates critters that count as beasts and fey, which basically means divine word can banish them (charisma save and most beasts aren't rolling in charisma).

Wow. That seems like a mistake. It should be impossible for the creatures of the Conjure Animals spell to be both a ‘beast’ type and a ‘fey’ type. But that duality is what the spell description seems to say: ‘Each beast is also considered fey’.

It probably wont be errataed because ‘specific trumps general’. So, in the context of this specific spell, the magic allows the creatures to count as both.

 

[dave2008]

There is no ‘subtype’ in 5e because a ‘tag’ isnt a subdivision of a type.

For example, the ‘elf’ tag can be ‘celestial (elf)’ or ‘humanoid (elf)’ or whatever other type. Elf isnt a subdivision of anything. It is a racial tag that can become various types.

I was simply pointing out that @MechaTarrasque was using the term ‘subtype’ instead of the term ‘tag.’ Those,to me, are more similar than you calling the D&D terms titans, demons, devils, and yugoloths ‘races’ which they clearly are not IMO.

 

[dave2008]

Wow. That seems like a mistake. It should be impossible for the creatures of the Conjure Animals spell to be both a ‘beast’ type and a ‘fey’ type.

Why should that be impossible? I think you are being to strict in your application if that is your opinion.