D&D 5E Why does Wizards of the Coast hate Wizards?

[Arnwolf666]

One of the reasons I prefer the spellshard approach. It eliminates "your book got wet" & a bunch of other absurd across the table comments I've seen players & gm's direct at wizards... "Really? my spellshard set in adamantine on an adamantine necklace got burned by that fireball under my clothes & armor?"

Wet shouldn’t be a problem. The books in earlier editions were described as so expensive and using rare inks because they were water proof and very resistance to wear and tear. Otherwise the book would be as inexpensive as a typical codex of the time period, which still wasn’t cheap. Yeah you could still burn them. But They were pretty resilient.

 

[Arnwolf666]

One of the reasons I prefer the spellshard approach. It eliminates "your book got wet" & a bunch of other absurd across the table comments I've seen players & gm's direct at wizards... "Really? my spellshard set in adamantine on an adamantine necklace got burned by that fireball under my clothes & armor?"

A method of preventing jerk moves

 

[Arnwolf666]

The classes that can swap have a built in explanation for it, as they are granted spells from an outside source like a deity as a result of prayer.

it makes perfect sense for some divine classes. Just not Bards and sorcerers.

 

[FrogReaver]

Funny.

But, really, cantrip and extra attack are both linear, cantrips just do dice, weapons do a die + mod, they increment at about the same points, if you're comparing weapon use by a 'pure' fighter who keeps getting extra attacks.

Attack bonus also doesn't much figure into it, it progresses at proficiency, the same for weapons or cantrips, while AC tends to also scale with CR in a similar way.

What would a quadratic fighter look like? Well, if you gave a fighter MDDs like in the early playtest, such that every attack did more damage (and some of that could be added in enabled more useful maneuvers, with the list of maneuvers as well as the number of dice increasing) as you leveled, and gave them 5e Extra Attacks, that'd start to look a bit like it.

What would a linear wizard look like?

Level	1st level spell slots	2nd	3rd	4th	5th
1	2
2	2
3		2
4		2
5			2
6			2
7				2
8				2
9					2

etc...



Of course, you'd have a chance to trade in an old known spell for a new one every level (and via scribing, any time he encountered the text of a new spell of the level he casts or lower), so you wouldn't just be up-casting sleep forever (though you could if you wanted).

Also of course, of course, all save bonuses would scale with CR at about the proficiency rate.

Fighter's damage already grows semi-quadratically. There are 3 damage variables. Damage, Attack and Extra Attack. Damage only goes up for a few levels typically. Attack goes up over the whole career. Extra attack goes up over the whole career.

 

[FrogReaver]

it makes perfect sense for some divine classes. Just not Bards and sorcerers.

I think the limited retraining mechanic is justified for both of them.

 

[Mistwell]

it makes perfect sense for some divine classes. Just not Bards and sorcerers.

I can kind of see a bard. They study and recall different sources of lore, which is an outside source. It's sorcerer that's hanging me up. Their explicit thing is no outside source. I need some better explanation to go along with that ability to switch. I could come up with one, but I'd like the designers to do it.

 

[Mistwell]

I mean, check out the list of sources of power for sorcerers. Some are external, like divine or a pact. Some are internal, like exposure to wild magic. Some are ancestral, like a dragon ancestor. They're all over the place - how do you come up with a unified theme for how they can change their spells overnight that would cover all these sorcerer origins, given some of them seem to be the antithesis of changing overnight?

1. Your innate magic comes from draconic magic that was mingled with your blood or that of your ancestors. Most often, sorcerers with this origin trace their descent back to a mighty sorcerer of ancient times who made a bargain with a dragon or who might even have claimed a dragon parent. Some of these bloodlines are well established in the world, but most are obscure. Any given sorcerer could be the first of a new bloodline, as a result of a pact or some other exceptional circumstance.

2. Others carry a raw, uncontrolled magic within them, a chaotic storm that manifests in unexpected ways.You might have endured exposure to raw magic, perhaps through a planar portal leading to Limbo, the Elemental Planes, or the Far Realm. Perhaps you were blessed by a fey being or marked by a demon. Or your magic could be a fluke of your birth, with no apparent cause.

3. Sometimes the spark of magic that fuels a sorcerer comes from a divine source that glimmers within the soul. Having such a blessed soul is a sign that your innate magic might come from a distant but powerful familial connection to a divine being. Perhaps your ancestor was an angel, transformed into a mortal and sent to fight in a god’s name. Or your birth might align with an ancient prophecy, marking you as a servant of the gods or a chosen vessel of divine magic.

4. Your innate magic comes from the Shadowfell itself. You might trace your lineage to an entity from that place, or perhaps you were exposed to its fell energy and transformed by it.

5. Your innate magic comes from the power of elemental air. Many with this power can trace their magic back to a near-death experience caused by the Great Rain, but perhaps you were born during a howling gale so powerful that folk still tell stories of it, or your lineage might include the influence of potent air creatures such as djinn.

I am not seeing an easy unifying theme which would allow all these different types to change overnight.

 

[Leatherhead]

I mean, check out the list of sources of power for sorcerers. Some are external, like divine or a pact. Some are internal, like exposure to wild magic. Some are ancestral, like a dragon ancestor. They're all over the place - how do you come up with a unified theme for how they can change their spells overnight that would cover all these sorcerer origins, given some of them seem to be the antithesis of changing overnight?

Spell Versatility does not let you change spells that you get from a Subclass. Spells gained from features like the Divine Soul's Divine Magic, or any Warlock's Expanded Spell List from their Pact are not effected by it (even Mystic Arcanum spells aren't allowed, but that's a different discussion). We can safely ignore those origins when creating an ability that modifies the core Sorcerer Spellcasting by assuming that, while there are multiple different ways to trigger becoming a Sorcerer, being a Sorcerer is a thing that exists independently of however that switch is flipped. Which is the key thing that makes all Sorcerers into the same class to begin with, instead of the Subclasses each being their own unique class. This is backed up by the fact that once you become one type of Sorcerer, you can't also become a different type of Sorcerer, even when meting the requirements for it.

And you could say the same thing with Warlocks.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Fighter's damage already grows semi-quadratically. There are 3 damage variables. Damage, Attack and Extra Attack.

Attack bonus is opposed by AC, which does tend to rise with CR (less the case with save bonuses), and damage bonuses aren't strongly tied to level (stats cap at 20, magic items aren't assumed).

But, it's certainly true that any arbitrary damage bonus (from magic, circumstance, a high roll at chargen, etc) will be problematically incremented by each Extra Attack to which it applies.

It's also worth noting that "fighter damage," very nearly sums up the class.

 

[FrogReaver]

Attack bonus is opposed by AC, which does tend to rise with CR (less the case with save bonuses), and damage bonuses aren't strongly tied to level (stats cap at 20, magic items aren't assumed).

But, it's certainly true that any arbitrary damage bonus (from magic, circumstance, a high roll at chargen, etc) will be problematically incremented by each Extra Attack to which it applies.

It's also worth noting that "fighter damage," very nearly sums up the class.

If we are taking into account enemy defenses scaling then I’d say wizards get the short end of the stick there. Legendary resistance. magic resistance. Enemies saves scale with level as well. Heck even hp scales with level.

If all that gets factored in then combat wise I wouldn’t classify the wizard as quadratic either (at least for combat)