D&D General How do you feel about Save or Die?

[Gadget]

It seems that as a pure mechanic, Save or Die (or Save or Suck) can have both positive and negative effects on gameplay. Employed in an arbitrary, "Gottcha" manner--as it often was in 1e and early days--is not the ideal way to use it. It needs some kind of design buffer around it to both have the atmosphere, yet not be arbitrary. Others are suggesting the 'telegraph' method, there may be others that I can't formalize into thought right now.

 

[MichaelSomething]

How about this?

Everyone who already posted in here roll a D20. If the result is 10 or lower, edit your post to endorse your opposite position. If the result is 11 or higher, nothing happens.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

How about this?

Everyone who already posted in here roll a D20. If the result is 10 or lower, edit your post to endorse your opposite position. If the result is 11 or higher, nothing happens.

Robilar's first roll is FINAL.

 

[CleverNickName]

I have Advantage, the Lucky feat, and I'm a hafling, so I'll just roll until I like the result.

 

[Arnwolf666]

Darn I failed. Guess I’m against it now. Or at least until someone casts remove curse on me.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Like many others here, it seems, I like my players to THINK their characters will die for they don't make the save . . .

 

[Bacon Bits]

I find the increase in paranoia itself is only sometimes a benefit to the play experience, and rarely is it an overall benefit in light of the negative impacts of actually applying it.

Since this is based upon the play experience, it is different at each table. You do you. Me, I will apply it at rare-to-never frequency.

This is closest to where I'm at.

That said, I think the "make a save every turn to end the spell, and it's a concentration spell and might end early anyways" mechanic used with hold person, for example, is a bit much of overcompensation, however. I'd prefer some other mechanism that keeps the spell a bit more dangerous than it currently is. I would not be opposed to having different rules for PCs and NPCs, even.

 

[Garthanos]

It makes D&D characters less impressive and interesting than a mlp character.

 

[Garthanos]

That said they can be pretty impressive

 

[Gradine]

I guess they had their place in the founding of the game and what it was designed for, but the expectation in D&D nowadays is that a character is more than a collection of stats and gear on a page but a living, breathing character with motivations and flaws and relationships. Not to say this didn't exist in the days of dungeon crawls and death traps, but it wasn't nearly as central to the game. Quick, cheap deaths brought upon by Save or Die effects, no matter how well telegraphed, are entirely antithetical to a game that values rich, complex player characters.

The game does not need Save or Die to create tension, fear, and the legitimate danger of death, and I would argue that being successful in that without using cheap, single-roll spells or monster effect creates much richer and stronger tension & fear that feels far less artificial.

I mean, do what works for you, of course. Personally, I think the statement that Save or Die would be a terrible design flaw is the only correct one in regards to modern D&D.