How do you feel about Save or Die?

Save or Die?

  • Sure, I don't mind it.

    Votes: 48 46.2%
  • It isn't my cup of tea, but of others enjoy it good for them.

    Votes: 31 29.8%
  • No, it is a terrible design flaw.

    Votes: 25 24.0%

  • Total voters
    104
  • Poll closed .

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Personally I want a Basilisk or Cockatrice of or Medusa whatever to be a process its basically a damage type of stoning it may randomly induce upper or lower body slowing and immobilized if you are already slowed or disadvantage on attacks and then weakness on your attacks if they are already disadvantaged or similar if it takes you down to zero hit points you are stoned

And of course everybody must get.. stoned.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Personally I want a Basilisk or Cockatrice of or Medusa whatever to be a process its basically a damage type of stoning it may randomly induce upper or lower body slowing and immobilized if you are already slowed or disadvantage on attacks and then weakness on your attacks if they are already disadvantaged or similar if it takes you down to zero hit points you are stoned

And of course everybody must get.. stoned.
Think I flunked a few con saves back in the day.
 

5ekyu

Adventurer
In general it is better to die quickly and roll up a new character than sit and roll death saves.

Terrible rule.
Different tastes.

I was using a homebrew form of death saves back in 3e.

To me the beauty is to have that "vulnerable" period spawn immediate need for response to avoid death, to get you back in play. The drama is the push on the other PCs to get your downed character back up before that dead event occurs.

It changes folks choices and priorities in the immediate moment - especially in circumstances and tactics make it challenging.

Dead does nothing for me but "about go die" creates a challenge.
 

Cap'n Kobold

Adventurer
That said, I think the "make a save every turn to end the spell, and it's a concentration spell and might end early anyways" mechanic used with hold person, for example, is a bit much of overcompensation, however. I'd prefer some other mechanism that keeps the spell a bit more dangerous than it currently is. I would not be opposed to having different rules for PCs and NPCs, even.
If Hold Person was just one save and paralysed for a full minute if you failed, it would need to be a higher level spell for balance reasons.

More to the point however, a player who still needs to roll a save during their combat round may have time to take a drinks order or similar between turns, but they are still engaged. Dropping dead in the first round is likely to have them start playing on their phone or similar.
You're going to get this issue when players die, which can't be helped. Having it happen more regularly isn't good though.

In general it is better to die quickly and roll up a new character than sit and roll death saves.

Terrible rule.
How does your game implement introducing new characters?
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Yes.
But a half way decent DM isn’t doing that.

I mean the choices of the players have to lead to appropriate consequences. These consequences need to be explained clearly. If that is done successfully, anything goes.

Maybe save or die requires a more skilled DM to implement. That is a good thing as it drives the development of better DMs.
hahhhaa. Hey Guys I running AD&D this weekend. I think it going to be running a module.
THERE! SAVE OR DIE Telegraphed. Any one playing more than two sessions OR those evil players who looked at the save chart and saw death magic column knew Save or die existed.
Save or Die was a feature not a bug. OF COURSE some of my pcs did last long enough for the ink to dry.
 
I've never cared for save or die even back in the days of 1E. In general my PCs mean more to me than just a piece of paper, it's hopefully like a favorite TV character or protagonist of a good novel. I get invested in that character's ongoing story.

So if my PC dies (guaranteed if I'm playing an elf) that story either ends or I'm just bored until they can respawn. But even more than that, dying because of bad luck is just pointless. It's not heroic, it's not because I made a mistake and did something stupid. It's almost never something I could have seen coming or prevented. It's just dumb luck completely out of my control on a one time roll. It takes away my player agency.
But that is dying because of a mistake. Getting into combat or setting off the trap is a mistake.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
But that is dying because of a mistake. Getting into combat or setting off the trap is a mistake.
There's a difference between having your PC going into combat and getting killed and walking around a corner and having them dying because you rolled poorly. In the former I'm controlling at least some of the narrative, even if that means bravely running away retreating.

I've had uninjured high level PCs with triple digit HP die because of one stupid random die roll. There was literally nothing I could of done to prevent it other than not play. No obvious risk, no warning, just "roll a D20" dead.

That may be a speed bump for some people, but many campaigns I've been in didn't allow raise dead or similar.
 
There's a difference between having your PC going into combat and getting killed and walking around a corner and having them dying because you rolled poorly. In the former I'm controlling at least some of the narrative, even if that means bravely running away retreating.

I've had uninjured high level PCs with triple digit HP die because of one stupid random die roll. There was literally nothing I could of done to prevent it other than not play. No obvious risk, no warning, just "roll a D20" dead.

That may be a speed bump for some people, but many campaigns I've been in didn't allow raise dead or similar.
Well, the first situation has an easy fix:. don't play with jerks or power tripping DMs.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
Well, the first situation has an easy fix:. don't play with jerks or power tripping DMs.
Well, I never played with Bob "The Killer Hand" as DM again, but in older editions save or die was fairly common unless you went out of your way as a DM to avoid it.
 
Well, I never played with Bob "The Killer Hand" as DM again, but in older editions save or die was fairly common unless you went out of your way as a DM to avoid it.
Like I said, don't get into combat. That's how we played. Combat was a last resort. Still no one ever made it past 7th level. Fun times.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Well, I never played with Bob "The Killer Hand" as DM again, but in older editions save or die was fairly common unless you went out of your way as a DM to avoid it.
I recall my first DM was also not that Bob but he did have a bit of well the rules say so and not sure he liked the Fantasy Vietnam boom you stepped on a land mine either but... even before 3e there were still RAW personalities.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
Like I said, don't get into combat. That's how we played. Combat was a last resort. Still no one ever made it past 7th level. Fun times.
That would be the antithesis of fun to me. I don't play "cowards and wimps". If you never got past 7th level then it's not the game for me.

To each their own.
 

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