D&D 5E Merging the Sorcerer and Warlock

[Li Shenron]

I feel like the sorcerer and warlock are only separate because of the warlock's separate mechanics.

Partly, but the main reason is more "social" i.e. the Warlock is a separate class because a lot of gamers liked it in 3.5e and 4e, and WotC wanted them to be happy in 5e too.

The narrative distinction between Warlock and Sorcerer is very clear: as a Warlock, you get your powers from a powerful fey/celestial/whatever, as a Sorcerer, you ARE the powerful fey/celestial/whatever.

If anything, there is a slightly less distinction between Cleric and Warlock: how powerful does the fey/celestial/whatever need to be in order to be called a deity?

But you can of course merge Warlock and Sorcerer, or Warlock and Cleric, or Wizard and Sorcerer or all spellcasters classes for what matters, if you like the narrative better in your fantasy setting, nothing wrong with that...

 

[Leatherhead]

Are you me? I have been saying this for years now.

Flavor Wise, every Sorcerer Origin could easily be made into a Warlock Patron and vice versa.

Mechanically speaking, they solve each other's problems. Invocations would work swimmingly as a sorcerer's "mutations", making them feel more innately magical, and alleviating the problem of not knowing enough spells to begin with. While the Warlock would gain vercitility and long-rest staying power from using Sorcery points to augment their spells or get more slots should the need arise.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Not really and the Cha v Int is fundamental to the different approaches here.
Wizards are first and foremost scholars, natural philosphers who have studied the mechanics of the multiverse to the extent that they have learn the formulas and rituals that allow them to manipulate Magic in the world, the spell book is fundamental - the Wizard is about calculation and mechanics

Warlock and Scorcerer arent about learning formula and ritual, they are all about the intuitive feel for magic, be it the natural flow of the magical world around them or illiciting the favour of hidden powers. They dont need to understand Magic and how it works, they just need to feel the flow and do it

Per the PHB description: "Drawing on the ancient knowledge of beings such as fey nobles, demons, devils, hags, and alien entities of the Far Realm, warlocks piece together arcane secrets to bolster their own power."

To me they are Wizard school drop-outs. They took the easy way, but it is knowledge that generates their power, even if they could only gain and decipher it by selling their soul.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You might find it interesting to look at the Pathfinder Kineticist class. This has most of the mechanics of the original 3.5 warlock, but with totally different fluff.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I feel that since the warlock doesn't rely upon a curse/boon mechanic like they did in 4E, the line between these two classes could be removed and the sorcerer could take on the warlock casting mechanics. Metamagic could return as a feat option for all casters, an alternate way to upcast spells.

Thoughts?

Wouldn't much hurt anything, IDT.

If you did open Metamagic back up, would it be handled by up-casting, like in 3e? Would it be feats, or some sort of spellcraft check (Tool Use: Focus?) or what?

 

[Salthorae]

If you did open Metamagic back up, would it be handled by up-casting, like in 3e? Would it be feats, or some sort of spellcraft check (Tool Use: Focus?) or what?

Metamagic could easily be Invocation(s).

I don't mean each one as a separate invocation. I mean a list of Metamagic just as we have it now with top-level Invocations like this:

• Metamagic:
  • When you take this invocation, you gain Sorcery points equal to your Warlock level used to power your metamagic. You regain all spent sorcery points when you finish a long rest.
  • When you take this invocation, you can select two metamagic from the list of available metamagic options.
  • You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it unless otherwise noted.
  • You can select additional Metamagic choices at 10th and 17th level

I'd take out the Font of Magic portion where you can create slots or create spell points by burning slots as it's too complicated with the Pact Magic mechanics.

I thought about splitting out the additional metamagic options from 10th/17th as other invocations, but since there are no other invocations that hinge upon others it doesn't really make sense to do it here.

If you wanted to do that, I'd add "if you don't already have sorcery points," to the first sentence of the Invocation. "You can take this invocation up to two times." to the bullet points. I'd also add Prerequisite: "15th level if you already possess this Invocation".

I'd also probably add "Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome" since that is the caster focused Pact. Though that Pct doesn't need any help really. I could go either way on this one.

 

[Weiley31]

If Oberon banged your mom, your a feyblooded sorcerer. If you learned the secret magic techniques of the Seelie Courts, because Oberon got into a drunken stupor, during one hell of a Fey Banger, and you overheard him, your a warlock.

I see em as two whole separate branches. Reflavoring Bloodline Origins as Patron Options (a Dragon for Dragon-Blooded, a Storm Lord for Giant Bloodline, a Ithillid for Abbarant Mind, etc, etc.) Seems legit.

 

[Xeviat]

Wouldn't much hurt anything, IDT.

If you did open Metamagic back up, would it be handled by up-casting, like in 3e? Would it be feats, or some sort of spellcraft check (Tool Use: Focus?) or what?

I'd do it with upcasting. We already have that as a basic mechanic. Probably wouldn't have it for raw damage things, but upcasting a level to change an elemental type, or to play with targets or shapes or things could work nicely and give casters more feats to play with.

 

[lall]

Thoughts?

The sorcerer does nothing for his powers, unlike the warlock and the rest.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

It could be interesting. I don't think the sorcerer is different enough from a wizard to justify it existing in the core rules. It would be easy to move metamagic somewhere else, move the origin story to the warlock, and leave the "you convince an otherworldly entity to give you powers" origin story where it has always been: with clerics and paladins.

Then we could bring back the playtest sorcerer. That was an innovative design that could have found its way to the finished version of the game.