D&D General On gatekeeping and the 'live-streaming edition wars'

[Dire Bare]

Just a thought to add . . . .

This upcoming setting book is tied to a popular streaming show . . . but does that really matter (other than to fans of the show)?

I mean, it's still a setting book. Was the recent Eberron setting book a bad call from WotC because not everybody likes the setting of Eberron? Was the Ravica setting book a bad call because not everybody plays Magic: The Gathering?

If WotC partnered with a fantasy author to put out a setting book for D&D based on a series of novels, would that be a bad call? Not everybody will have read or enjoyed those novels, which ever novels we're talking about. How about a new setting book tied to a comic book series, or movie series?

Why is Wildemount any different? If you were completely ignorant of Critical Role, or hate the "actual play" streaming movement from the core of your soul . . . . it's still a setting book that you might find interesting. Or not.

Now, if you would prefer WotC to develop their own "classic" settings into 5E before tackling "new" or "other" settings . . . . I can understand that desire. But we are simply dealing with a situation where the book WotC is publishing in March isn't to YOUR desires, while it does match the desires of other fans. To bitch about that is just, well, sour grapes at best, toxic fandom at it's most extreme.

The fact that the Wildemount book is tied to Critical Role is . . . immaterial really (in context of our discussion).

 

[Dire Bare]

Also, since I don't really have the time to keep up on Critical Role, I'm excited for the cartoon and it about having the setting book to add to the enjoyment of the world the CR team created.

I'm with you on this! I haven't managed yet to get through a full episode of Critical Role, not because it's bad, but it just doesn't hold my attention. But I am fascinated by the new development of actual play streaming in our hobby, and also fascinated by Critical Role itself (the show, the campaign, the players/characters). I've already got the Green Ronin Tal'Dorei setting book, and I'm excited for the upcoming Wildemount book! I'm also planning on picking up the graphic novel compilations of the various Critical Role comic series. More fantasy comics and fantasy settings for D&D? Yes, please!

I can't comprehend how this is taking anything away from anyone.

It isn't. Some folks just like to complain if they aren't catered to directly.

Even if the CR book is responsible for pushing away the release of other setting books (which CR and WotC claim it is not), as an old grognard, I just don't care.

Yeah, the Dark Sun book isn't being delayed due to the Critical Role book, but even if it were, it just means you have to be patient. We can't all be first.

With one, important, exception. WotC needs to get on the stick NOW with the Mystara Known World 300-page setting book, to be followed by the 300-page Mystara Red Steel setting book, and the 300-page Mystara Hollow World setting book. These, obviously, need to be prioritized over all other D&D releases!!!

 

[billd91]

I mean, it's still a setting book. Was the recent Eberron setting book a bad call from WotC because not everybody likes the setting of Eberron? Was the Ravica setting book a bad call because not everybody plays Magic: The Gathering?

If WotC partnered with a fantasy author to put out a setting book for D&D based on a series of novels, would that be a bad call? Not everybody will have read or enjoyed those novels, which ever novels we're talking about. How about a new setting book tied to a comic book series, or movie series?

Why is Wildemount any different? If you were completely ignorant of Critical Role, or hate the "actual play" streaming movement from the core of your soul . . . . it's still a setting book that you might find interesting. Or not.

It's no different at all.

I would add that the only "bad call-ness" about it is the overall badness/goodness publishing another setting book would provide. I think there could be some bad in the sense that it's contributing to the segmentation of the D&D market, something Ryan Dancey and Lisa Stevens concluded was a contributing factor to TSR's ultimate meltdown. However, since many of these products seem to be oriented as one-and-done books, that should help contain the badness compared to multiple settings generating whole product lines. But I think there can also be some good in the potential to cross-promote with other markets - Magic for Ravnica, Critical Role for Wildemount.

 

[MNblockhead]

I'm with you on this! I haven't managed yet to get through a full episode of Critical Role, not because it's bad, but it just doesn't hold my attention.

I can understand this. It is definitely something you get more out of the more time you've invested into it. I listed to the entire first season. Almost all of it I listened to in podcast form, while doing yard work, cleaning the house, working in the garage, etc. But, eventually, it was just too much content. So I'm glad to see the comics, cartoon, and setting book, because I really do like the stories and setting.

I'm also planning on picking up the graphic novel compilations of the various Critical Role comic series. More fantasy comics and fantasy settings for D&D? Yes, please!

I've read and enjoyed the comics. It would be nice to have them condense their games into comics. It would be a nice way to follow or catch up on the stories.

With one, important, exception. WotC needs to get on the stick NOW with the Mystara Known World 300-page setting book, to be followed by the 300-page Mystara Red Steel setting book, and the 300-page Mystara Hollow World setting book. These, obviously, need to be prioritized over all other D&D releases!!!

BEFORE GREYHAWK !? How DARE you! ;-)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

While I find watching live-streaming personally silly (why not play instead of watch I would ask?), if others do it as a form of entertainment it is not any different that watching a play, movie, reading a book, going to a comedy club etc.

As far as if someone is a "D&D fan" simply because they watch live-streaming, that is perfectly fine. I am a fan of football. Do I play it? Nope, but I LOVE watching it.

Why watch The Witcher when I could just LARP or get back into theater?

because it’s a fun show.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

True, but it's even ruder that viewers demand that publishers kowtow to their wants and desires over the players and DMs who actually use their books.

This is gettinr ridiculous. Who is the one making demands for kowtowing here? I never heard any Critical Role fans moan about Forgotten Realms releases or Ghosts of Saltmarsh (Greyhawk) but for some reason they're the entitled ones? Ok.

And love the presumption that there is no crossover between Critical Role viewers and players.

I mean, come on guys, Wizards released a Diablo sourcebook twenty years ago!

 

[Eltab]

The 4e DMG described one PC play style: "Watcher". The watcher likes hanging with friends, the one-liners that refer back to favorite movie scenes (or other inside jokes), they cheer when somebody rolls a crit, they groan with you when you roll a '1', and they agree with the consensus when a decision needs to be made. Their character can carry its own weight in a fight or skill challenge but is not optimized. They are there for the friendship not the story.

 

[DND_Reborn]

While I find watching live-streaming personally silly (why not play instead of watch I would ask?), if others do it as a form of entertainment it is not any different that watching a play, movie, reading a book, going to a comedy club etc.

As far as if someone is a "D&D fan" simply because they watch live-streaming, that is perfectly fine. I am a fan of football. Do I play it? Nope, but I LOVE watching it.

Why watch The Witcher when I could just LARP or get back into theater?

because it’s a fun show.

People seem to be taking my response a bit too far. My question is entirely logical:

If someone does watch CR or another show and told me about it, I would ask them if they played also, and if they don't--why not? It is a time-issue, no one they know plays or they can't find a group, etc.? If they seem interested in playing, I would invite them to come by our next session and meet everyone, see how we play, and offer them to join.

If they told me "Oh, I'm not interested in playing, I just find it fascinating to watch" or something, that is fine as well. This is why I wrote it is a form of entertainment for them. It is definitely NOT my cup of tea, I found the episode of CR I watched, to be honest, pretty silly and lame. But that is fine, too, because I am sure there are plenty of things I enjoy that others would find "silly and lame." Doesn't bother me a bit.

As far as your response, if you enjoy watching the show so much, maybe you would find it even more enjoyable getting back into theater or something... I don't know, only you can decide that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

People seem to be taking my response a bit too far. My question is entirely logical:

If someone does watch CR or another show and told me about it, I would ask them if they played also, and if they don't--why not? It is a time-issue, no one they know plays or they can't find a group, etc.? If they seem interested in playing, I would invite them to come by our next session and meet everyone, see how we play, and offer them to join.

If they told me "Oh, I'm not interested in playing, I just find it fascinating to watch" or something, that is fine as well. This is why I wrote it is a form of entertainment for them. It is definitely NOT my cup of tea, I found the episode of CR I watched, to be honest, pretty silly and lame. But that is fine, too, because I am sure there are plenty of things I enjoy that others would find "silly and lame." Doesn't bother me a bit.

As far as your response, if you enjoy watching the show so much, maybe you would find it even more enjoyable getting back into theater or something... I don't know, only you can decide that.

I was responding to the “why not play instead” comment.

it misunderstands why most of us (that I know) watch these shows. They’re long form improv drama using a framework I’m familiar with and enjoy, with characters, worlds, and themes, that I enjoy. Nothing to do at all with watching someone playing dnd, as such.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Just look at Twitter and Facebook. It's very prominent there.

Could I trouble you for specifics? I'm terrible at finding that kind of stuff and want to compile some to make a meme...