D&D 5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Eltab]

Chocolate milk...

Or hot chocolate (depending on weather)

 

[Xenonnonex]

D'oh. I'm built way too low—it went way over my head. Thanks for spelling it out.

No worries brah.

 

[pemerton]

One of the things that hurt 4e was that it felt unfriendly to old players

I just thought I would point out that I played a 7+ year 4e campaign with a group all but one of whom first played D&D in the early 80s. And for some of us the last extended D&D campaigns we were involved in were AD&D.

Most of, or at least many of, the people on these boards who post about their 4e play have pretty extensive play histories.

I know there were plenty of people who didn't like 4e and felt affronted by its existence, but I don't think old players is the right description.

 

[pemerton]

Core mechanics are easy to convert. It's the mechanics providing setting-specific flavor that are the problem. Recall the 3e regional feats? Great idea to provide specific flavor. Now do that for Dark Sun or Greyhawk... I seem to recall a Dragon article that tried to 3e-ize all the old settings.

Now what about the different cosmologies in the different settings vs core? I've handwaved it away by stating to my players that the Great Wheel is the true architecture and the FR or Eberron architectures are how people in those realms perceive it - frame if reference and all that.

What about cleaning up idiosyncracies between different products for the same campaign setting that don't align with each other?

All those things are what takes time - time that older players and DMs usually don't have. No DM wants to think through 4 different references if that don't have to. The 3e FRCS as far as I'm concerned is the gold standard for what a campaign setting book should consist of, if it is given a 5e treatment.

To me this all seems utterly unrealistic.

Mechanics providing setting-specific flavour = (for Greyahwk) the PHB; and for Dark Sun = a copy of the 2nd ed or 4e Dark Sun books. My memory of the first of those is weak. The second basically says drop rituals that will wreck survival scenarios, and here are the rules for purchasing "survival days". I think that can probably bae adapted to 5e as written (Of course there's also the matter of psionics rules, but while I haven't followed the details there seem to be many variants of these released via UA.)

If you want 5e regional feats it seems you'd just adapt the 3E ones; although in 5e this seems more like it should be a Background element.

And as far as "cleaning up idiosyncracies between different products", why would WotC be remotely interested in this? The number of purchasers or players who care is miniscule; and it's exactly the sort of thing that fan-based wikis, blogs, etc debate and resolve for those who care about it.

 

[MGibster]

As I continue to age I've found myself inching ever further from the desired demographic targeted by advertisers and producers of products I've enjoyed for years. Some of us older people lament the loss of MTV as we knew it in the 80s but there's an uncomfortable truth many of us won't admit to ourselves: If MTV had kept it's original format the channel would have died. Hell, I hate many of the most popular songs of 2019. GET OFF MY LAWN!

Do I wish Dark Sun would come back? I loved the setting so of course the answer is yes. But I don't know if it's in the best interest of WotC to put the time and effort into releasing it. Aside from those of us who remember 1991 would it resonate with today's audience? I'd love to say yes but I don't know if it would. I like 5th edition and I enjoy quite a few products. But overall I'm not really WotC's most coveted demographic and I'm okay with that. I'll continue to buy what interests me and wish WotC the best of luck.

 

[pemerton]

Do I wish Dark Sun would come back? I loved the setting so of course the answer is yes. But I don't know if it's in the best interest of WotC to put the time and effort into releasing it. Aside from those of us who remember 1991 would it resonate with today's audience? I'd love to say yes but I don't know if it would.

Well, Dark Sun was brought back for 4e (so nearly 10 years ago now) and seemed relatively popular.

But that would be one reason for not doing it yet again - I don't know if the 4e stuff is readily available on DM's Guild but even if not must be pretty easily obtainable by anyone who wants it.

 

[generic]

Well, Dark Sun was brought back for 4e (so nearly 10 years ago now) and seemed relatively popular.

But that would be one reason for not doing it yet again - I don't know if the 4e stuff is readily available on DM's Guild but even if not must be pretty easily obtainable by anyone who wants it.

The problem is that the majority of D&D players probably are not going to search for the 4E-era Dark Sun Guide, as great as it was, and will only be aware of a 5E implementation.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

DS 4th is a good example of troubles caused by possible (and sometimes necessary) retcons. After 2nd Ed new PC races and classes were created, and to be added to older settins wasn't very easy. Think about it. What if a player say "I want play DS with a totemist shaman (incarnum soulmelder class), or with a seeker, or a warden, or a psionic ardent, or a wilder, or a shardmind, or a gladiator-warblade with martial maneuvers or with a PC race from Expanded Psionic Handbook (3.5)?

DS will come back. It is a too good IP to be forgotten. But it needs a lot of work by artist designers becuase it is a very special look. Do you remember the comic? It had got its spirit, but not the right "fashion".

Maybe we will see before a rebook of Jakandor as a previous test before risking with a so valuable line.

And DS is perfect for Hasbro to sell toys about dinosaurs and other kaiju creatures.

I wonder about DM Guild should allow fan art and graphig novels set in Athas (or Jakandor). (Would we see troubles about "I designed that armour and you have plagiarized me!"?)

 

[3catcircus]

When people say stuff like this, I start thinking "Have you actually worked at a real company, or do you just read about them on the internet?". Because realistically, a lot of mandatory training in large companies is absolutely NOT "HR-directed" (and complaining about "HR-directed" is about 3 feet away from complaining about "namby-pamby politically correct snake person snowflakes!"), and there's really not going to be enough of it to make any kind of measurable dent in your output, unless you're only employed there for like six months or less, and even then it'll be a single-digit percent.

Uh, yeah. I work for the largest company in my industry (and one of the largest in all of industry).

We have mandatory training on a variety of subject matter every year - workplace violence, export regulations, counterfeit detection, just to name a few. The list of topics grows as your responsibilities grow. And then our customers also impose mandatory training on us as well - one of the most onerous which takes 19 hours and is required every year.

Note that I said as your responsibilities increase, so does your required training. So does the number of meetings you are required to attend. So a mid-career employee probably has only 20 hrs out of a normal 40 hr week for actual work product...

So yes, it does affect employee output.