D&D 4E Am I crazy? I've just gotten a hankering to play 4e again...

[Oofta]

There's a system for creating monsters lol.

I never claimed anything about playtested that's another poster.

I'm not claiming anything about quality either but it's verifiably false that 5 E has more options than 2E.

You might like 5E better but once again that's irrelevant.

The gritty rules in 5E don't actually make the game gritty.

It only changes how long long rests and short rests take. It changes the pacing of the game in terms of in game time

It doesn't change the actual wayvtge game runs or expected encounters.

It just slows down the level 1-20 thing game year you can pull off.

Compare with say the historical ha books where all magic is ritual magic and high level spells don't exist.1-3 points if healing a day and clw is a miracle.

Could you modify 2E to be that "gritty"? Sure. No game I ever played was. I don't remember any of the options you mention in any books published by TSR, but that doesn't mean much. When has all magic ever been ritual magic? In what (official) version of the game were there no high level spells?

While TSR published a ton of stuff and I'm sure I didn't keep up with it all what you describe seems to be either home brew or 3rd party.

But I don't think it would be any more difficult to make 5E just as gritty and there are plenty of options available in the Dms Guild if you don't want to take half an hour to come up with some house rules. Even just using all the "gritty option" rules from the DMG makes it more difficult for casters to recover spells while still being extremely limiting on natural healing.

I can't think of anything else to add that doesn't just come across as snark.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yep. Watching people argue 5e vs 2e... certainly could make you want to play 4e...

;P

 

[Zardnaar]

Could you modify 2E to be that "gritty"? Sure. No game I ever played was. I don't remember any of the options you mention in any books published by TSR, but that doesn't mean much. When has all magic ever been ritual magic? In what (official) version of the game were there no high level spells?

While TSR published a ton of stuff and I'm sure I didn't keep up with it all what you describe seems to be either home brew or 3rd party.

But I don't think it would be any more difficult to make 5E just as gritty and there are plenty of options available in the Dms Guild if you don't want to take half an hour to come up with some house rules. Even just using all the "gritty option" rules from the DMG makes it more difficult for casters to recover spells while still being extremely limiting on natural healing.

I can't think of anything else to add that doesn't just come across as snark.

The historical series of books changed how magic worked. Spells only went to level 5 and it took ten minutes or an hour iirc to cast anything. And I think you had to roll dice to see if the spell worked.

Skill and Powers had point buy classes and races. Also early advatage mechanics.

Combat and Tactics had weapons from the stone age to 18th century.

Spells and magic had spell points,high and low magic rules, defiling rules.

Class books had the kits, various setting had various rules changing the game.

2E would be the edition to pick for game of thrones probably with critical hits rules from Combat and Tactics.

 

[Oofta]

Yep. Watching people argue 5e vs 2e... certainly could make you want to play 4e...

;P

Yeah, sorry. I don't really care about dead editions even if they do live on in the hearts of the faithful.

 

[Oofta]

The historical series of books changed how magic worked. Spells only went to level 5 and it took ten minutes or an hour iirc to cast anything. And I think you had to roll dice to see if the spell worked.

Skill and Powers had point buy classes and races. Also early advatage mechanics.

Combat and Tactics had weapons from the stone age to 18th century.

Spells and magic had spell points,high and low magic rules, defiling rules.

Class books had the kits, various setting had various rules changing the game.

2E would be the edition to pick for game of thrones probably with critical hits rules from Combat and Tactics.

If you want to continue start another thread. I don't really care about an edition that saw it's last publication more than 2 decades ago.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you want to continue start another thread. I don't really care about an edition that saw it's last publication more than 2 decades ago.

Just pointing out people were completely verifiably wrong.

If you don't like it fair enough no big deal but people were claiming things that were completely false.

 

[Oofta]

Just pointing out people were completely verifiably wrong.

If you don't like it fair enough no big deal but people were claiming things that were completely false.

So now I'm a liar? Because I didn't know about an option because I didn't purchase every book published by TSR, which I admitted? The rest of what you posted was just your opinion, not fact.

Give me a break.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Just pointing out people were completely verifiably wrong.

Such being the purpose of the internet, afterall.

 

[Undrave]

My wife basically threw my books out (I burned out on 4E, she grew a burning hate of a thousand suns) so I can't look. I guess it could have been a monster from a mod, but I distinctly remember a "players want crunch, not fluff in the MM so we're not going to provide much if any".

I think the goal was to jam pack as much monsters as possible. Each Monster section had a short description for the group as a whole, each monster had a small 'tactics' section on how to use it, and you had at least three different result for knowledge checks AND encounter group exemples.

Basically, the book wasn't interested in entertaining you, it wasn't interested in presenting itself like Volo's guide as a in-universe book. No, it focused on what you needed to USE the Monsters in it: under which conditions would those monsters enter in conflict with the PCs, what do they DO during those conflicts, who do they challenge the PCs with and, finally, what the player characters could know at a glance. That's all. They added pics too.

They added the heavier fluff later.

Here's a place with example pages.

 

[Zardnaar]

So now I'm a liar? Because I didn't know about an option because I didn't purchase every book published by TSR, which I admitted? The rest of what you posted was just your opinion, not fact.

Give me a break.

Some if the stuff you claimed was in the core books. 2E did have monster design rules in the DMG. Page 69 1995 DMG.

All I said was 2E was the most moddable D&D ever printed. It blows 5E out of the water. 5E has a few levers you can rebuild 2E from the ground up if you really want to.

5E dies some things well, it's encounter rules for example are a bit meh worse than 4E, argueably no better than 3.5.

It doesn't do high level, gritty, tactic or hexcrawls well. Alit of the optional rules eg flanking are also worse than 3E and 4E.

The encounter guidelines break down around level 6, feats outright break the game IMHO. Still fun it's not perfect. I