D&D 5E Swordmage! (+thread)

[Xeviat]

So, the AC is comparable to medium and then heavy armor. This allows strength or Dex builds with no particular issues.

the name, I get where you’re coming from but, there isn’t a better name, and Swordmage has history in D&D .

Yeah. Remember, heavy armor only hits AC 20/21 when a shield and the defense fighting style come into play. So Paladins and Fighters can get there. Barbarians, oddly, could get to AC 22 if they got a Dex 20 and Con 20 and used a shield, and even 24 with Con 24 and Dex 20. Which is ... weird.

The only other issue I'm seeing for Dex equals 10 + Prof + Int is that it will be tempting for a Wizard to pick up from multiclassing. Thus, you might want to hide the progression in the class itself, and just happen to give it out on the proficiency levels.

 

[cbwjm]

You could take a look at the pathfinder magus for ideas. One of the abilities they get is a pool of energy that can be spent to enhance their weapon for a limited time. Initially just as a +1 weapon but later they can add elemental damage and other weapon properties to their weapon.

Other things they can do with this energy pool is spend it to gain a bonus to hit on their weapon attacks for one round (maybe advantage in 5e?) or recall cast spells.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Hmm. OK. I'll hold off until I see how the rituals that you are introducing for the class work and what they do.

Just ensuring that you understood that a class that "uses ritual magic" is not required to cast 5e ritual spells.

Why wouldn’t you just accept that a premise of this + thread is that the class is a ritual magic user with a spellbook, a warrior-sage, not just a generic magical warrior, though?

Heavy armour maxes out at 18. A tanky class can only get up to 21 baseline by seriously sacrificing performance in the area of damage. (Using a shield prevents two-handed weapon use, and they have to use their weapon style on Defence rather than something more offensively-oriented.)

Maybe you missed it in the early flurry of posts, but I already said the exact calculation doesn’t need to be set in stone. But disregarding semantics about whether shields are armor, heavy armor maxes out at 20 without magic items or fighting styles. An armorless class has no access to magic armor or the defensive fighting style, so the trade off is fine.

 

[Garthanos]

Of note the Swordmage in 4e was actually one of the best "armored" of the defenders, in spite of using light armor.

 

[Garthanos]

• Fighting style at 2, Arcane maneuver on short rest, 4 uses (elemental damage + effect), scale at 11 and 17). Use Int for attack roll and damage roll.

I particularly like the term Arcane Maneuver...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah. Remember, heavy armor only hits AC 20/21 when a shield and the defense fighting style come into play. So Paladins and Fighters can get there. Barbarians, oddly, could get to AC 22 if they got a Dex 20 and Con 20 and used a shield, and even 24 with Con 24 and Dex 20. Which is ... weird.

The only other issue I'm seeing for Dex equals 10 + Prof + Int is that it will be tempting for a Wizard to pick up from multiclassing. Thus, you might want to hide the progression in the class itself, and just happen to give it out on the proficiency levels.

Wizard is a good point. Bladesinger would be doing, say, 12+Int+Int at level 3 (2wiz/1sm).

I mean, I’m not gonna totally rework the concept for 1 subclass multiclass combo, but it may be worth doing as you suggest and just giving them “12+Int” at level 1, and then increase it by 1 at the appropriate SM levels.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You could take a look at the pathfinder magus for ideas. One of the abilities they get is a pool of energy that can be spent to enhance their weapon for a limited time. Initially just as a +1 weapon but later they can add elemental damage and other weapon properties to their weapon.

Other things they can do with this energy pool is spend it to gain a bonus to hit on their weapon attacks for one round (maybe advantage in 5e?) or recall cast spells.

Yeah, the more I think on it the more a point system appeals more than spell slots. I think it will allow more freedom and make it easier to model the component parts of the concept.

 

[Xeviat]

Yeah, the more I think on it the more a point system appeals more than spell slots. I think it will allow more freedom and make it easier to model the component parts of the concept.

You also don't have to worry about other spells coming in and changing things. Like how shadow blade gives the Arcane Trickster a damage buff spell when they really didn't have one before.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You also don't have to worry about other spells coming in and changing things. Like how shadow blade gives the Arcane Trickster a damage buff spell when they really didn't have one before.

Yep. I was gonna curate a spell list rather than giving them access to wizard spells, anyway, but its easier to do if only some of their Techniques or whatever are spells.

Speaking of, I don't like Manuever. Technique is okayish. I want something that sounds like a medieval swordmaster like Thibault or other hermeticism influenced writers of fencing manuals would come up with.

Anyway, here is a quick draft of the lore of the class, no mechanics yet. The Homebrewery - NaturalCrit

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Of note the Swordmage in 4e was actually one of the best "armored" of the defenders, in spite of using light armor.

Yeah, and I'm okay with the Swordmage needing something active a low levels to have good defense, so the 8+ calculation might work better, along with an active ability to create a magical shield or even a DR effect or something. Maybe even just a parry, tbh. I mean, monks and fighters already have subclasses that do it, and my Assassin does it, but it fits a swordmaster to have a special parry/riposte feature. IDK, I'll think more on it at work today and try to get some basic mechanics in place tomorrow.