D&D 5E Intiative Score (DMG variant rule)

[Nebulous]

Think of it like an action movie- There are no rounds- Unlearn what you have learned Switch cameras a lot whenever it would add tension- jump around from PC to PC like and leave "cliffhanger" moments when switching- whatever ups the "OH $&#@" factor

It will take some getting used to but I'm really ready for something different than D&D.

 

[atanakar]

@atanakar Yes, I'm saying group initiative, rolled round by round. The 5E side variant does not roll round by round, only once at the beginning of combat.

So, just change it. That is how 5e rolls.

 

[JeffB]

So, just change it. That is how 5e rolls.

Well as I stated, it comes with a lot of issues because of how the game is written- I have to start looking at/rewriting a bunch of abilities to avoid the "until your next turn" issues. So I tend to just play other systems as my D&D fix, and go mostly BTB for 5E and 4E when I run those (despite my B&M'ing)

 

[dave2008]

I don't know the HM system.

OK, basically everything has a speed. You declare what your doing, that has a speed, in you roll when your "turn" comes on the speed count. If two creatures have the same speed count, then you check who goes first. Otherwise you just act based on speed. It is better just to their example PDF: Detailed Example of Combat.

If you deviate from this by utilizing a round by round init- you screw up half of the monster abilities or the player's. I cast a spell, it's effect lasts until your next turn- then you roll highest initiative, and go. Now the effect ends possibly before it had any real effect. The next time, it may end up working twice as good. In T/OSR games, most things last a number of rounds, not "until your next turn" and the system is designed around "rounds".

Yes, I make a lot of custom monsters and sometimes I just want to say something last 1d4 rounds or whatever. However, i don't find it works pretty naturally to just insert this into 5e. It might be hard if I had to re-write everything, but I haven't had any issues just doing it on the fly.

The 6 second round also kills it for me-I've used this example before, but years ago I had one of my kid players (who was not particularly creative) come up with a fun, cinematic, dramatic attack move. Unfortunately it did not fit whatsoever into the "action system" and I had to nix it. In pre WOTC D&D games I simply could have said, no problem, called for one or at most two rolls and adjudicated the whole thing, and whether the kid rolled great or poorly, the character could theoretically have done everything including the amount of movement during the course of a one minute combat round- heck even 30 seconds, Instead it ended up being a big downer as I explained how it wasn't possible using these rules.

I must admit I can't imagine what possible action(s) he/she wanted to accomplish in a 30s-1 minute turn but couldn't accomplish in multiple 6 sec turns.

Funny thing, when we played 1e back in the 80's - 90s we payed with 10 second rounds. Someone one in our group read that and it became our standing, I didn't realize it wasn't the length of a turn until I started participating in on line forums!

Also, someone on these forums had an interesting idea. The just have everyone act and only roll initiative when there are conflicts. They were using 5e, but I can't remember the details of how the handle spells and reactions and such. It was quite interesting and may be something you like. I will post a link if I can find it (I tired already with no luck).

EDIT: here it is: concurrent initiative

 

[abirdcall]

I'm really hoping to find a new D&D imitative system. Shadow of the Demon Lord has a good one but it might be tricky porting to 5e. Easier to just play SotDL. I'm going to be running my first Dungeon World campaign on Roll20 soon so Im looking forward to that. It will be a breath of fresh air to have no initiative!

I'm also a fan of swapping out Dex for Perception or Intelligence, it just makes sense. Or ideally, like you said, just dumping the whole cycle and doing it more with the fiction.

Our table does the following:

1. Everyone declares what they are going to do that round.
2. Everyone rolls a d10.
3. Resolve turns from 1-10. PCs win ties.
4. If a player feels that their plan no longer makes sense then they may defer and act at the end of the round.

We have found that having the group all decide on what they're going to do at the same time speeds up the game. The resolution of the round goes quickly as well which feels cinematic.

We have a few exceptions built in to accommodate having a variable length between character's turns. For example, Dodge takes effect on initiative count 0. This is to prevent a player from wanting to Dodge that round, getting a 10, and then next round getting a 1.

 

[Don Durito]

Because of this thread (which you should read, it's good stuff!), I took a look at some of the variant rules in the DMG (also a must-read).

Anyway, I haven't tinkered with Initiative variants very much. While the RAW system isn't perfect, I also haven't seen any variant system that offers enough to warrant replacing RAW.

That said, I'm slightly curious about the Initiative Score variant in the DMG, In a nutshell, everyone gets a flat Initiative score equal to 10 + Dex (so basically a passive Dex score). Combatants then act in order of their score.

Pros
Less die rolling, which speeds up combat.
Rewards characters that have invested in Dex and Initiative.
Predictability allows the party to tailor strategy.

Cons
Less die rolling. Rolling dice is fun.
Penalizes characters with low Init scores. They never get a chance to act higher in the order.

Has anyone tried this? I'm inclined to give it a try. The pros outweigh the cons for me. While it's a bummer that slow characters will always act later in order, it is frustrating to have a character with high Init be penalized by poor rolls. Plus determining order at the start of combat can be time-consuming.

With this method, I'd also think about trying Init = 10 + Dex + Int...maybe (with ties going to higher Dex).

Not in 5E. But Symbaroum works basically that way. It's...ok. As you would think, a bit boring and predicatable (but standard initiative is boring anyway so it's not a great change) but you can segue more easily into combat with less dice rolling.

The key with using any variant rules in the DMG is considering what unstated repercussions using that rule will have (as the desginers largely don't bother to think it through for you).

For example an Assassin or Gloomstalker can now ensure they pretty much always get their initiative bonus. Consider if you want those to be so reliable.

 

[dave2008]

Well as I stated, it comes with a lot of issues because of how the game is written- I have to start looking at/rewriting a bunch of abilities to avoid the "until your next turn" issues. So I tend to just play other systems as my D&D fix, and go mostly BTB for 5E and 4E when I run those (despite my B&M'ing)

Rolling every round doesn't change any of the terms, but it may get you some funky results every once and a while (as you noted), but that doesn't seem like to much of a big deal. Alternately, just changed it to rounds. And everything becomes "end of the round," or "end of the next round," or "in 1d4 rounds" or whatever. That is very easy to implement on the fly, I know from experience as I to prefer it to "at the end of its next turn" sometimes.

 

[Don Durito]

Our table does the following:

1. Everyone declares what they are going to do that round.
2. Everyone rolls a d10.
3. Resolve turns from 1-10. PCs win ties.
4. If a player feels that their plan no longer makes sense then they may defer and act at the end of the round.

We have found that having the group all decide on what they're going to do at the same time speeds up the game. The resolution of the round goes quickly as well which feels cinematic.

We have a few exceptions built in to accommodate having a variable length between character's turns. For example, Dodge takes effect on initiative count 0. This is to prevent a player from wanting to Dodge that round, getting a 10, and then next round getting a 1.

Do you go all the way and use spell interruption too?

 

[toucanbuzz]

Anyway, I haven't tinkered with Initiative variants very much. While the RAW system isn't perfect, I also haven't seen any variant system that offers enough to warrant replacing RAW....

I haven't tried the static initiative because it puts WAY too much weight on Dexterity, which already has huge impact on the game, and makes for extremely predictable combats (e.g. Larry always gets to go first, I'll always be last).

But, the beauty of D&D is that you can make your own rules to suit your own table. Over the years, I have come to appreciate the thrill of random turns, a throwback to my AD&D days. So, I tried the DMG variant (weapon speed), found it lacking, and made an improvement with a homebrew, which has worked out great (for my table).

So, it depends on what you're looking for. Speed? Variability? Thrill?

 

[abirdcall]

Do you go all the way and use spell interruption too?

I don't understand what either 'all the way' or 'spell interruption' means here.

I like to think of it as a fully formed and implemented houserule (really a heavily modified Greyhawk Initiative) if that is what you're asking.