D&D 5E Have we rebalanced the Champion Yet?

[FrogReaver]

What is wrong with that is you are ignoring half of the sentence you quoted.

Notice you failed to mention 11-20. Almost as if the words I said had meaning.

When I type things, I do it for a reason. When you quote something and ignore half of it, and are confused, consider the possibility that the part you ignored might be why you are confused.

The other problem is I worded it poorly. So I'll try again.

The problem (champion sucks compared to BM) they are trying to correct is at level 3-10. The solution proposed (+2 damage per attack) has by the largest impact at 11-20, because it scales with taps (and accuracy), and taps (and accuracy) go up at 11 and 17 and 20. This is what I would describe as a poorly aimed solution, because it has a larger impact where there is a smaller problem, and a smaller impact where there is a larger problem.

but it corrects the issue at 3-10 doesn’t it? Nor is it too strong at 11-20 is it?

 

[Garthanos]

All fine - but it sounds like you are trying to morph the champion more into something more complex and fiddly that you would enjoy more as none of those things are going to be appealing to the simple champion fan.

I think it's presumptuous to assume everyone probably wants the Champion for super simplicity? I think actually trading risk for reward should exactly be serving those want to play it for the gambler fun. Nor are players exactly nerfing themselves if they ignore the option, I mean not using using either you are much tougher which is also an appeal of the Champion ie being the tough guy.

The idea was actually for the fighter as a whole I just noticed it might help the Champion slightly more. Heck it could very much be a generic option to trigger an opportunity attack to gain an extra attack. To rush the fight

 

[Garthanos]

but it corrects the issue at 3-10 doesn’t it?

how about +2 only on your first 2 attacks?

 

[FrogReaver]

how about +2 only on your first 2 attacks?

That's possible. Still not as simple as the alternative. Let's look at the numbers though.

My proposal:

Battlemaster dice scale - growing in size and number. By high level they are up 54 to 117.

At higher level the +2 damage at 60% to hit is 124.8 damage. The expanded crit range adds a little more damage her as well. Maybe 30-50. That leaves the champion maybe 2 or so DPR higher at the highest levels.

The progression matches pretty well IMO especially for one of the simplest mechanics there is.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think it's presumptuous to assume everyone probably wants the Champion for super simplicity?

I think it's presumptuous to try to redo the class as something other than a simple fighter

 

[Garthanos]

I think it's presumptuous to try to redo the class as something other than a simple fighter

LOL I could offer it to every one in melee hey anyone who wants to can chose to make an extra attack in addition to whatever they get normally to rush the fight but if you do it triggers an opportunity attack. And peoples brains will explode over having that option

 

[FrogReaver]

LOL I could offer it to every one in melee hey anyone who wants to can chose to make an extra attack in addition to whatever they get normally to rush the fight but if you do it triggers an opportunity attack. And peoples brains will explode over having that option

But at that point you've stopped trying to rebalance a simple fighter (aka Champion).

 

[Garthanos]

But at that point you've stopped trying to rebalance a simple fighter (aka Champion).

Sure but It could benefit the Champion (and some variety of people who play the champion) a bit more than others was what brought it to mind.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sure but It could benefit the Champion (and some variety of people who play the champion) a bit more that others was what brought it to mind.

How does a mechanic that could benefit everyone end up benefiting the champion more? I mean I can see some synergy between barbarian and that. But Champion?

 

[Garthanos]

How does a mechanic that could benefit everyone end up benefiting the champion more? I mean I can see some synergy between barbarian and that. But Champion?

The more attacks you make the more crits come into play was the thought... hmmm I might have derped on that perhaps my own gamber urge gave a false assumption.

What if we give the Champion the Barbarians brutal critical at lower levels if its the lower levels in issue?