It really isn't. +2 damage from 1-4 adds approximately 27.6 damage (60% hit rate). The Crit affect adds another 3.5-6.5 on average. Using a longsword that's +32.1
A battlemaster get's +54.
You've cut the gap more than in half. By level 5 you've caught up - even surpassed the battlemaster.
Bear in mind that the Battlemaster damage maths from the first page is rather bad and somewhat misleading.
It ignores the riders on the maneuvers, to just look at pure damage, but ignores the maneuvers that just give damage: Riposte and precision attack.
A better model would be to assume that each Superiority dice grants an additional attack, rather than just being a rider on an existing attack. This represents use of Riposte to get an additional attack, and Precision to turn a miss into another chance to hit.
This also shows the Battlemaster scaling better since attacks will increase in damage at higher levels.
I have to admit I find that appealingNow on the point that manuevers are more useful overall because they have effects and can be front loaded - I agree. But I don't think the answer is to compensate the champion with even more damage to try to close that gap. Give him another bonus at level 3. I'm thinking expertise athletics would be pretty cool.
If we're only comparing damage, between the two subclasses, then we should be comparing the damage-focused maneuvers. There is no real way of quantifying the benefits of the maneuvers with additional effects, but to base the comparison on the maneuvers with those effects is seriously undervaluing the BM subclass. - If you balance things so that both subclasses can deal comparable damage, but the BM also has the other effects from its maneuvers, you will end with a skewed and unbalanced result.I'm all about precision. In fact I think I've pushed that maneuver more than anyone on this site over the years. That said I don't believe those are really the comparisons we should be aiming for.
Now on the point that manuevers are more useful overall because they have effects and can be front loaded - I agree. But I don't think the answer is to compensate the champion with even more damage to try to close that gap. Give him another bonus at level 3. I'm thinking expertise athletics would be pretty cool.
ok it took brain a bit it engage with this question....But at that point you've stopped trying to rebalance a simple fighter (aka Champion).
I agree that the Champion should get something more than just more damage. Athletics expertise is nice, but using it in combat will generally still compete with dealing damage in a way that the BM maneuvers don't, and out of combat use is still limited.
1st | Fighting Style | Second Wind | |
2nd | Action Surge | ||
3rd | Martial Archetype Feature | Bonus Proficiency | |
4th | Ability Score Improv. | ||
5th | Extra Attack | Improved Critical | Remarkable Athlete |
6th | Ability Score Improv. | ||
7th | Martial Archetype Feature | ||
8th | Ability Score Improv. | ||
9th | Indomitable | ||
10th | Martial Archetype feature | ||
11th | Extra Attack (2) | Additional Fighting Style | Superior Critical |
12th | Ability Score Improv. | ||
13th | Indomitable (two uses) | ||
14th | Ability Score Improv. | ||
15th | Martial Archetype feature | ||
16th | Ability Score Improv. | ||
17th | Action Surge (two uses) | ||
18th | Martial Archetype feature | ||
19th | Ability Score Improv. | ||
20th | Extra Attack (3) | Survivor |
ok it took brain a bit it engage with this question....
My battlemaster gains a portion of its extra damage by spending a resource aka CS... my Paladin gets a portion of its damage by spending daily resources. The champion does so with criticals on each attack. Champions damage is linear to its attacks and BM and Paladins are not.... an amount is added to it on a short rest or daily basis. So something which improves access to more attacks helps out the Champion more than it helps the battlemaster and paladin. It does also give the Barbarian a boost but my original idea was fighter only and helped the Champion more than other archetypes of fighter.