D&D 5E Monster Tactics: Avoiding Fireballs

[DEFCON 1]

Heh... well, my comment on that would be that once the first wizard discovered how to create a Fireball using magic... there would have been a technological arms race to see which nation's military could put it out on the battlefield ASAP. And then once they did that... nations would have paid wizards back home more and more gold to extend the range of Fireball past 150 feet. Likewise... other nations would also have paid wizards to find ways to create counterspell magic defense out to 150 feet, and then beyond. None of this "3rd level spell to 90' and then stop working on it" BS.

Then once the range of Fireballs were lengthened, and the range of counterspells were too... then wizards would have worked on Fireballs that were NOT counterable... wherein other nations would have paid for the R&D to create shielding from any types of Fireballs etc. etc. etc.

D&D magic does not adequately represent the technological (magical) arms race that would have occurred once most of these magical spells were discovered.

 

[Reynard]

No. 5e is at it’s primary core, a stable rules architecture that can be used used to model any number of thematic simulations. As long as the mechanical rules stay within the Bounded Accuracy constraints, the flavor can be anything you want it to be.

A non magical world is just as viable a platform as a magical world. A PC can still have full magical progression in a non magical world. A setting with only say 200 total magic using creatures ( a non magical world), can be modeled using the books as written. It is called editing.
You curate to find what fits, and what does not.

Presuming the rules have assumptions, that intractably lead to specific thematic conclusions, is an over reach.

Thematic elements, like Alignment, are unbound. Changes can be made freely, and without restriction to thematic elements.

I said "CAN". Are you suggesting that it's actually impossible to look at the rules and contents of the core books and make assumptions about the world?

 

[LordEntrails]

Only those that want to live. Think about it like evolution. Some will survive, and they will tell stories around the campfire with their young. Perhaps the story they tell is "When you see a group of the 'civilized' folks and one is wearing a blanket and carrying a stick, spread out." Or maybe even more general, "When faced with enemies, many of them will call upon the mystical forces and strike you down if you stand too close to your friends."

In short, what keeps the ecological balance? Intelligent creatures learn and pass on what they learn to their offspring. unintelligent creatures use other methods of species survival (mass reproduction, immunities, whatever).

 

[Reynard]

But they still don't enter combat with the assumption that they need to account for it. They all believe in it, as some distant factor that will never affect them personally. At least, until Gandalf actually starts doing something, and they quickly have to reassess their perspective.

Sure. I was just drawing a distinction between the two settings' assumption about magic.

 

[Reynard]

Heh... well, my comment on that would be that once the first wizard discovered how to create a Fireball using magic... there would have been a technological arms race to see which nation's military could put it out on the battlefield ASAP. And then once they did that... nations would have paid wizards back home more and more gold to extend the range of Fireball past 150 feet. Likewise... other nations would also have paid wizards to find ways to create counterspell magic defense out to 150 feet, and then beyond. None of this "3rd level spell to 90' and then stop working on it" BS.

Then once the range of Fireballs were lengthened, and the range of counterspells were too... then wizards would have worked on Fireballs that were NOT counterable... wherein other nations would have paid for the R&D to create shielding from any types of Fireballs etc. etc. etc.

D&D magic does not adequately represent the technological (magical) arms race that would have occurred once most of these magical spells were discovered.

Isn't Meteor Swarm the bigger version of Fireball? The laws of physics as they relate to magic are certainly fuzzy, but one this is for sure: more powerful magic is higher level, and therefore within rech of fewer and fewer casters. Maybe fireball is the pinnacle of battlefield magic because the likliehood of having an significant number of wizards higher than 6th level is very small, and if you do have them, having them sling fireballs is not the most efficient use of their talents.

 

[Oofta]

Heh... well, my comment on that would be that once the first wizard discovered how to create a Fireball using magic... there would have been a technological arms race to see which nation's military could put it out on the battlefield ASAP. And then once they did that... nations would have paid wizards back home more and more gold to extend the range of Fireball past 150 feet. Likewise... other nations would also have paid wizards to find ways to create counterspell magic defense out to 150 feet, and then beyond. None of this "3rd level spell to 90' and then stop working on it" BS.

Then once the range of Fireballs were lengthened, and the range of counterspells were too... then wizards would have worked on Fireballs that were NOT counterable... wherein other nations would have paid for the R&D to create shielding from any types of Fireballs etc. etc. etc.

D&D magic does not adequately represent the technological (magical) arms race that would have occurred once most of these magical spells were discovered.

Who's to say the proto-fireball wasn't burning hands? That fireball isn't the epitome of what can be done unless you invest far more energy/expertise and cast meteor storm?

But evolution of magic (and technology) is also a whole separate topic.

 

[MarkB]

Heh... well, my comment on that would be that once the first wizard discovered how to create a Fireball using magic... there would have been a technological arms race to see which nation's military could put it out on the battlefield ASAP. And then once they did that... nations would have paid wizards back home more and more gold to extend the range of Fireball past 150 feet. Likewise... other nations would also have paid wizards to find ways to create counterspell magic defense out to 150 feet, and then beyond. None of this "3rd level spell to 90' and then stop working on it" BS.

How do you know that the current Fireball isn't the result of all those modifications and advancements? For one thing, later casters seem to have managed to get rid of that dangerously double-edged "spreads to fill confined areas" feature that the early versions were prone to.

 

[Oofta]

How do you know that the current Fireball isn't the result of all those modifications and advancements? For one thing, later casters seem to have managed to get rid of that dangerously double-edged "spreads to fill confined areas" feature that the early versions were prone to.

Yeah that and bouncing lightning bolts took out a few casters back in the day.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I think this is a separate topic. On the other hand a long bow has a close range of 150 ft and the best counterspell is to make the wizard a pincushion.

Which is why, in a military setting, the war wizards would have their own support troops that would protect them with a shield wall or defend them from skirmishers and assassins.

 

[Oofta]

Which is why, in a military setting, the war wizards would have their own support troops that would protect them with a shield wall or defend them from skirmishers and assassins.

Which is where the "arms race" comes into play.