D&D 5E Monster Tactics: Avoiding Fireballs

[Reynard]

Which is where the "arms race" comes into play.

Assuming that it still takes agonizing years to get proficient with magic, there would have to be an extensive system in place to create these war wizards and they would represent a huge chunk of any nation's defense budget. You would not want them anywhere near a battlefield.

 

[DEFCON 1]

How do you know that the current Fireball isn't the result of all those modifications and advancements? For one thing, later casters seem to have managed to get rid of that dangerously double-edged "spreads to fill confined areas" feature that the early versions were prone to.

Because we also have up to 9th level spells. As soon as the world discovered that people were capable of the work that could be done with 9th level magic... every nation would spend every gold piece to get their best and the brightest to increase productivity with that level of magical technology. Do you really think after 10,000 years of magical research and development in the Forgotten Realms... creating magic on par with what 9th level spells could create and do (especially with elves who could actually live throughout half of that)... that their world would still be at a medieval level of construction?

Heck... look at where we are as a society after 10,000 years of advancement, and we haven't had 9th level magic available to us that entire time! They have in the Realms. Their Industrial Revolution should have happened millenia ago. But because we just like knights in shining armor, they still use wagons to get around and have walled cities you need to throw ballista bolts at.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Look it this way... once our best and brightest discovered the working transistor in 1947, it's taken us just over 70 years to get to where we are with our computer systems. You mean to tell me once 9th level magic was discovered that it would them thousands of years to iterate on it? No way. No way at all.

 

[Reynard]

Look it this way... once our best and brightest discovered the working transistor in 1947, it's taken us just over 70 years to get to where we are with our computer systems. You mean to tell me once 9th level magic was discovered that it would them thousands of years to iterate on it? No way. No way at all.

It's not science. There's a cap based on whatever the limits of magic are (9th level, specifically). Think of it this way: it doesn't matter if humanity has one million years of scientific progress, we will never break the light barrier because it is a hard limit.

 

[Tonguez]

As a combat AoE the Fireball isnt so different to a Seige engine or even an Archery volley which are both things that intelligent combtants should easily account for. Orcs in particular tend to be raiders they dont use tight formations instead they are mobile skirmishers with ready use of Dex saves +1.

That said I view Parties of Adventurers as Mercenary companies and the reason militaries use these “small squads of elite combatants equipped with the best gear” as a direct result of expecting magic and monsters to be a factor.

Small squad can use stealth to reach the objective, assasinate the mages, and destroy defences. Only after these small teams get through would the large occupation forces be sent in to quell the masses.

 

[MarkB]

Because we also have up to 9th level spells. As soon as the world discovered that people were capable of the work that could be done with 9th level magic... every nation would spend every gold piece to get their best and the brightest to increase productivity with that level of magical technology. Do you really think after 10,000 years of magical research and development in the Forgotten Realms... creating magic on par with what 9th level spells could create and do (especially with elves who could actually live throughout half of that)... that their world would still be at a medieval level of construction?

Heck... look at where we are as a society after 10,000 years of advancement, and we haven't had 9th level magic available to us that entire time! They have in the Realms. Their Industrial Revolution should have happened millenia ago. But because we just like knights in shining armor, they still use wagons to get around and have walled cities you need to throw ballista bolts at.

Um... I was addressing what you said about fireballs. I didn't touch the rest of your post. Not sure why you're directing this at me.

 

[Oofta]

One of the dumbest tropes in fantasy (and sci-fi for that matter) is the organizations or kingdoms that have been around for 10,000 years. Really? I mean civilization started (depending on who you ask) 12,000 years ago in the Mesopotamian valley.

But we also assume that civilization continuously improves. That's not necessarily the case - after all look how many earth shattering events have happened in FR over just the past couple hundred years. All those ruins and artifacts have to come from somewhere.

So IMHO to say FR has had fireball for 10,000 year is just a bit of eye-rolling silliness or simply illogical.

 

[MarkB]

One of the dumbest tropes in fantasy (and sci-fi for that matter) is the organizations or kingdoms that have been around for 10,000 years. Really? I mean civilization started (depending on who you ask) 12,000 years ago in the Mesopotamian valley.

But we also assume that civilization continuously improves. That's not necessarily the case - after all look how many earth shattering events have happened in FR over just the past couple hundred years. All those ruins and artifacts have to come from somewhere.

So IMHO to say FR has had fireball for 10,000 year is just a bit of eye-rolling silliness or simply illogical.

There's an odd tendency in fantasy fiction as a whole to depict cultures as declining rather than progressing. The great works that we can produce today are as nothing compared to the powerful artifacts of our noble past.

That's one of the reasons I like Eberron so much. It does have ancient and powerful civilisations in its history, but it also depicts magic and its uses as something that is constantly developing and improving.

 

[Oofta]

There's an odd tendency in fantasy fiction as a whole to depict cultures as declining rather than progressing. The great works that we can produce today are as nothing compared to the powerful artifacts of our noble past.

That's one of the reasons I like Eberron so much. It does have ancient and powerful civilisations in its history, but it also depicts magic and its uses as something that is constantly developing and improving.

Yeah, my home campaign is sort of Eberron-like for that reason. Well, except when I practically blow up the whole world because it felt like it had gotten too safe.

 

[Reynard]

There's an odd tendency in fantasy fiction as a whole to depict cultures as declining rather than progressing. The great works that we can produce today are as nothing compared to the powerful artifacts of our noble past.

That's one of the reasons I like Eberron so much. It does have ancient and powerful civilisations in its history, but it also depicts magic and its uses as something that is constantly developing and improving.

The mythic past isn't just a fantasy thing, it's a human thing. Our earliest forms of literature all point to a grand past, and so do our newest. how many sci-fi stories have ancient artifacts at their core? It's inherent in at least the western tradition (and maybe otherwise; I don't know that material well enough to say) to have the Golden Age ended long ago and never to come again.