D&D General The Generic Deities of D&D

[Aldarc]

I love all the shout outs to 4e Dawn War Pantheon and the Sovereign Host of Eberron as generic pantheons done right. (As well as Scarred Lands.)

I would also like to add the plug-in-play mythological pantheon in Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous. It has a pretty good grasp of godly family drama, myths, and the like. It's a great resource for developing a pantheon for D&D.

 

[dave2008]

Yeah, so does Dungeons & Dragons. That's the problem. That conception of divinity, in D&D, is inherently maltheistic and it is compounded by the inventively grotesque ways its authors compel the worship of beings that are fundamentally unworthy of it.

To be clear, that is not Dungeons & Dragons' conception of divinity. That is a Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk assumption of divinity. As you already noted Dark Sun (and Eberron) have different concepts of divinity. And most importantly (to me), my setting has a different concept of divinity. All of those settings (and more) are Dungeons and Dragons.

Let us remember that over half of DMs use their own setting and thus, we probably shouldn't pigeon-hole something as the conception of divinity in D&D

 

[dave2008]

But it's not like a Classical European pantheon. They are a team and pick a leader at a given time based on who shows up as long as they aren't Evil. I think that's how they win the Dawn War. One time they all showed up and wrecked the bickering Primordials when the demons are busy CEing themselves.

FYI, in the Deities & Demigods: Bane article of Dragon #372 they win the Dawn War because Bane took the lead of the military effort. He is then upset after the war when the rest of the gods don't follow him as their leader.

 

[DammitVictor]

To be clear, that is not Dungeons & Dragons' conception of divinity. That is a Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk assumption of divinity. As you already noted Dark Sun (and Eberron) have different concepts of divinity. And most importantly (to me), my setting has a different concept of divinity. All of those settings (and more) are Dungeons and Dragons.

It's a fair point, but I'd retort that Greyhawk was the default setting of 3.X and Forgotten Realms is the default setting of 5e, that they were two of the top three settings of 2e-- and that the third top setting in 2e, Dragonlance, was even worse.

Both of the 2e metasettings, of course, were primarily based on those settings and their gods and doubled down on the assumptions those settings' theologies were based on.

The settings that do it right are exceptions to the rule.

 

[dave2008]

It's a fair point, but I'd retort that Greyhawk was the default setting of 3.X and Forgotten Realms is the default setting of 5e,

I know many people believe this, but Forgotten realms is not the default setting of 5e. The core books do not have a default setting. Now, most of the adventures are set in the FR, but that is not the same thing.

Now the core default is closer to FR, but it is not FR. As a reminder, from the DMG:

Note: More settings stray from the core assumptions than are tight to the core. And those core assumptions (for divinity at least)?

So I'm guessing not something you like, but a bit more neutral than FR.

The settings that do it right are exceptions to the rule.

What is right in this context will vary from person to person and is not a statement of fact.

 

[DammitVictor]

I don't have a problem with anything in that paragraph. It specifically does not include any of the things that I said I had a problem with.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Exactly. And it undermines the entire basis of the setting's tone when these squabbling parasitic children are purported to be the ultimate arbiters of what is (im)moral and (un)ethical within it.

I mean, to you that's the case, but to other people it could be incredibly interesting and provide commentary about what is actually Good and Evil. That a supposed "Arbiter of Good" could fall into the trappings of what is traditionally considered "evil."

And keep in mind, that, while the gods in D&D worlds are gods, they aren't Gods. That is to say, they aren't the source of reality, they are a part of it, with all the benefits and (in this case) drawbacks that come from it. To use Platonist thought if I may, they could be closer to the source than their servants and mortals, but they still might be very far from it.

While it's true that might not be what D&D has specifically, I think it's still compatible with The Great Wheel style cosmology that a lot of D&D attaches itself to.

 

[The Hierophant]

In 1e by RAW can Dwarves even be Clerics?

Yeah, didn't think so...

Hobbit Thief, Elf MU or Fighter/MU, Dwarf Fighter, Part-Orc Fighter, Human Ranger, Human Cleric, and the Gnome on the end of a leash. Now we're talking a stereotyped party!

In 1e RAW Dwarven Clerics are NPC only.

PC Dwarves in 1e can be Fighters, Thieves, or Assassins. That's it. (PH page 14)

The only class that's open to everyone without limit is Thief.

I think 2e also allowed them to be Clerics.

I'll be damned. I somehow forgot that. Demihuman Cleric PCs must have been in Unearthed Arcana.

I've played the Gold Box games much more recently than actual First Edition. I'm surprised they used the optional rules.

PHB says 8th level Cleric for dwarven npcs. This was changed in Unearthed Arcana so dwarves PCs could be clerics, 13th level was possible for single classed dwarven clerics with 18 WIS.

 

[Undrave]

But then humans would have to be good at something (unless the god is completely incompetent) and that would totally screw up race in D&D. Hmmm, on second thought would be a good thing; bring on the God of Laser Beams.

Couldalways be the God of Community and Team Work?

 

[jasper]

In the game I'm in the running joke is that ALL the Dwarven God have "and War" at the end of their portfolio description

"God of Building, Fortification and War"
"God of Knowledge, Learning, and War"
"God the Cooks and Brewers... and War"

and so forth

God of Accounting and war.
They are generally quartermaster corp.