D&D 5E Spell-paths

[SkidAce]

I liked the paths article. We almost converted all the mages to it back in the day.

Dragon #216.

 

[J-H]

This sounds like the Shugenja from 3.5 CDiv(?), which was a re-do of an earlier (3.0 or OA) class.
The spell lists were super limited though, so it was hard to get a character that could do many things.

 

[Perun]

I remember an old Dragon article which had spell paths in it, which I assume were inspired by Rolemaster/MERP etc. I was thinking about how that would work in 5E.

So this is just random musings -- but if say "fire mage" was a sub-class for the wizard, and you get access to all fire-themed spells in the core rules (whatever class the spell was originally intended for).

Alternatively, you get access to paths as feats, and each of those feats opens up an entire spell-path to you (fire, ice, plants, whatever).

Very, very rough musings!

I would bring that to 5e for one class: Sorcerer
A red dragon sorcerer would get all fire spells.

Just the other day I was thinking about how to re-do the sorcerer along the similar lines. The idea was to make thematic groups of spells (e.g. Lightning, Wind, Fire, Force, Charm, etc.) that would contain a number of spells of different levels, in theory one spell per level (obviously, some would contain all nine spell levels (Fire?), while some would have less), and these would replace Spells Known of the default sorcerer. The sorcerer would automatically know spells in the group he has access to (limited , of course, by his level and the spell levels he can cast spells of). Some groups would only be accessible at higher levels, depending on spell availability. The end result would be that the sorcerer ends up with more spells known than the PH sorcerer, but would be limited to a few of those groups (e.g. two groups at level 1, with access to additional groups opening at higher levels, with a total of, say, 5 groups around level 15).

 

[Flamestrike]

You can smack an elementalist together by fluffing a Draconic sorcerer, tacking on the Elemental spell metamagic from the new Class options UA (which lets you change your energy type when you cast a spell), taking the Elemental Adept feat, and being choosy with spells you select as you advance in level.

I've been thinking about creating an Ice/ Cold Sorceress this way.

Maybe I'll let it go.

 

[Perun]

You can smack an elementalist together by fluffing a Draconic sorcerer, tacking on the Elemental spell metamagic from the new Class options UA (which lets you change your energy type when you cast a spell), taking the Elemental Adept feat, and being choosy with spells you select as you advance in level.

I've been thinking about creating an Ice/ Cold Sorceress this way.

Maybe I'll let it go.

You have to be careful with the spell selection, though. I'm playing a storm-themed storm sorcerer (well,duh!), and I've been trying to select thematic spells. We do use several house-rules to make sorcerer slightly more versatile (spellpoint variant from the DMG, does wonders for the class), but as we're advancing through the levels, the lack of versatility becomes more and more pronounced.

Even though I like the character, I've really come to believe that 5E sorcerer really isn't on par with (most?) other classes.

 

[Flamestrike]

You have to be careful with the spell selection, though. I'm playing a storm-themed storm sorcerer (well,duh!), and I've been trying to select thematic spells. We do use several house-rules to make sorcerer slightly more versatile (spellpoint variant from the DMG, does wonders for the class), but as we're advancing through the levels, the lack of versatility becomes more and more pronounced.

Even though I like the character, I've really come to believe that 5E sorcerer really isn't on par with (most?) other classes.

With storm sorcerer you can easily get away with Thunder AND Lightning for your spells for raw damage types (Cold could also work if fluffed as freezing winds etc), and the new Metamagic from the UA lets you change the element type on the fly for 1SP (so you could go with Elemental Adept feat to bypass resistance, and the Metamagic to let you change the elemental type on the fly to damage things that are nontheless immune).

Id be tempted on a Storm sorcerer to take the mandatory 2 levels of Tempest Cleric (for maximised Thunder or Lightning damage 1/ short rest), the Elemental Adept feat (Lightning) and the UA Elemental Spell metamagic (Lightning).

That way you can covert any damage dealing spell to Lightning damage for 1 SP, ignore resistance, and maximise that damage 1/ short rest (or treat 1's as 2's when you're not maximising it).

Tossing out Maximised Lightning bolts/ balls/ cones that ignore resistance should be fun.

And if you stumble across something immune to Lightning, use your Elemental Spell Metamagic to change to something else (Thunder or Cold remain thematic).

As a bonus side effect, you dont have to load up on heaps of different offensive spells (with different damage types) with your precious small number of spells known. Chromatic Orb, Scorching Ray and Shatter are your go to spells till Lightning Bolt, Fire ball and Cone of Cold come on line.

 

[Blue]

I remember an old Dragon article which had spell paths in it, which I assume were inspired by Rolemaster/MERP etc. I was thinking about how that would work in 5E.

So this is just random musings -- but if say "fire mage" was a sub-class for the wizard, and you get access to all fire-themed spells in the core rules (whatever class the spell was originally intended for).

Alternatively, you get access to paths as feats, and each of those feats opens up an entire spell-path to you (fire, ice, plants, whatever).

Very, very rough musings!

This is really how I wish Sorcerers work. A "Fire Sorcerer" would have a deep but narrow mastery over fire, able to do all sorts of tricks with it. But they can't also greater invis, haste, and simulacrum.

 

[Morrus]

This is really how I wish Sorcerers work. A "Fire Sorcerer" would have a deep but narrow mastery over fire, able to do all sorts of tricks with it. But they can't also greater invis, haste, and simulacrum.

I mean, you can just choose to do that, so I might be making it more complex than I need to.

 

[Blue]

I mean, you can just choose to do that, so I might be making it more complex than I need to.

To a point. I'd prefer something where you are mechanically locked in, but in exchange you have a greater range within that narrow specialty.

The spell system in 5e between limited good saves for creatures which strongly rewards taking varied spells, and some stand-out spells that missing is a distinct depower, really allows you to miss out on a lot just by staying thematic, without a corresponding boost. Single element casters can get a boost resistance stopping their damage, with the high opportunity cost of a feat. Spell themes that are not an element, like teleportation or animation, don't even have that.

 

[Fanaelialae]

This is really how I wish Sorcerers work. A "Fire Sorcerer" would have a deep but narrow mastery over fire, able to do all sorts of tricks with it. But they can't also greater invis, haste, and simulacrum.

Well, the really interesting thing about the path system was that if you had a spell shared by two paths you could jump between those paths.

So let's imagine two paths. Fire magic and Light magic. They share Continual Flame as a spell. You could start with as a fire mage and then pick up Continual Flame to progress on the Light path, which would allow you to pick up Invisibility (assuming it is a Light spell). But you wouldn't be able to pick up Mage Armor, because it's not on either of those paths (you'd need to first learn a spell on one of your paths that was also shared by the Force magic path). Maybe not a perfect example, since Continual Flame is an illusion and arguably wouldn't constitute fire magic per se, but if that's the issue just substitute an imaginary spell called Everburning Flame that meets those criteria.

That's what really appealed to me about the path system. It built on itself in a logical progression. The principles of one spell allowed you to branch out to related spells.