D&D 5E The case for (and against) a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book

[teitan]

@teitan - You don't get to rate the value of my purchases period, never mind for complete luxuries like gaming. I find the notion sort of offensive actually.

I didn’t do that and you’re implying I am. I am saying it’s relative but thank you for trying to paint me as a bad guy and making it all about you and your purchases.

There is a little button over there called “ignore” so go ahead and click it. I’ll wait.

 

[Fenris-77]

I didn’t do that and you’re implying I am. I am saying it’s relative but thank you for trying to paint me as a bad guy and making it all about you and your purchases.

So you aren't using all that rhetoric to judge the value of people's purchases? If that wasn't you point, what was? My use of 'I' wasn't supposed to index me taking it personally, I just thought it was a very, very strange thing to say. You essentially said "If you buy this you're fiscally irresponsible in this time of crisis". If that doesn't constitute a judgement or condemnation I'm not sure what does. Feel free to explain though, it's possible we're talking past each other.

Edit - I can't quite see the ignore button through the cloud of thick sarcasm, so I'm afraid we're both waiting.

 

[Maxperson]

Pretty soon, you'll be saying that Dark Sun is the home of My Little Ponies.

Well, they ARE Defilers.

 

[Mecheon]

I think that it makes more sense for WOTC to go wholesale on the SCAG treatment and do region guides once a year

And I think it makes more sense for them to instead make new stuff and not devote so much to what are effectively corners of a long since developed world, especially when we're still waiting on other ones to get mechanical updates to allow them to be playable in this new edition.

No one's arguing that people want more FR stuff, but my argument is going to remain that the effort spent on that could instead be producing us Planescape, Spelljammer or Dark Sun, and I think more people would prefer those getting updated than "Obscure Corner of the Realms that Only Existing Realms Fans Know About"

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Hey I get it and hardcore supporters are not the average person saying “we want this and not that”. To take the least common denominator to define what people are asking for is bad business. But it’s pretty clear people want an updated version of the FRCS and then region books like the way it was always done before 4e. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable expectation. I don’t think it’s going to happen either. I have made arguments for a full scale FR book aka the 3e book because it’s more practical but I think that it makes more sense for WOTC to go wholesale on the SCAG treatment and do region guides once a year. The Sword Coast is great but eventually it will get to the point where they aren’t “realms shaking events” but “sword Coast blowing everything up events”! Then we have the dale lands all over again. but taking the old FR coded sourcebooks as a model and doing $35 sourcebooks, once a year with a storyline adventure book that highlights the setting? That could be really smart.

Is it clear that "people" want an updated FRCS? This poll here has combined FR material as less popular than Dragonlance, leading me to believe that there is just a very vocal group of FR fans.

D&D 5E - Which three topics do you most want to receive official (WotC) treatment?

You can pick three and only three. Which do you most wnat to receive the WotC treatment? That is, hardcover and/or boxed set - but with an actual physical product involved. I'm not including an "other" option as I'm guessing everyone will have one, so feel free to list it below, or any other...

www.enworld.org

Honestly, I'm wondering of the best way out of this conundrum would be to release an updated "special edition" SCAG, with expanded page count (the full 320 would be nice, but any significant change in page count would be welcome) and new cover art. Seemed to have worked for Tyranny of Dragons, although the changes here would probably be on a larger scale.

This actually is a pretty fair idea. I don't think you and I will agree on what should make up the remaining pages to get to 320, but the idea itself is not bad.

I actually dug up a copy of the 3E FR campaign setting book to compare... the bulk of it is setting content, but a substantial portion is actually devoted to the magic system, miscellaneous content like climate, deities and so on.

The actual stuff on different nations/geographies is a total of 133 pages, only 38 pages longer than the same section in the SCAG.

 

[Eltab]

The genius of the 3e FRCS is that is The Book Of 10,000 Plot Hooks disguised as a gazetteer. If WotC decides to do more Tomb of Annihilation -like adventures where you explore and interact with the "country" while solving the problem, pulling those plot hooks forward to current day will give them some places to visit and unique flavor to make this patch of woods / mountain / prairie / desert different from other patches over the horizon.

 

[Dormammu]

Plus, you know, it would be nice if actual D&D settings outnumber Magic The Gathering setting books in D&D.

If one can be pragmatic and ignore that MtG is another brand owned by WotC, I think many MtG planes have tremendous creative value. It's actually a blessing that they are picking some highlights to bring to D&D.

There are entire creative writing teams and enormous artistic talent poured into these settings; why leave them to whither just because the concept of "cross promotion" is annoying. Get past that first instinct and evaluate them for their content alone.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So... what about those 320-page setting books that have been selling like hotcakes then?

Ravnica is only about 250 or so pages. Theros may be the same once they reveal the page count. Wildemount is barely 300 pages. And sure, Eberron is 320, but that is more for players who have been around longer. And honestly, when I wrote that comment, I could not decide to say 300-400 pages or 350-450 pages. Plus, the higher the page count gets, the more the book falls into being full of DM-facing material, rather than player-facing, and books aimed more at DMs have always sold less than books full of material for players to use for their characters.

I really wish Mearls and company back in 2014 had a firmer grasp on how they wanted to do the books, because if they had, maybe the SCAG would have been volume one in a series of hardback gazetteers for the Realms. But instead it was a one-off farmed out to another company to put together for them. Sure, Green Ronin is a good company, but still.

 

[Mercurius]

Is it clear that "people" want an updated FRCS? This poll here has combined FR material as less popular than Dragonlance, leading me to believe that there is just a very vocal group of FR fans.

Forum participants aren't representative of the D&D fan-base as a whole. The average age on these forums is mid to late 40s, about 15-20 years older than the average EN World visitor, if memory serves. Meaning, the average forum user remembers Dragonlance as a kid, and probably fondly, while the average D&D player has actually played in the Realms and would probably be far more interested in knowing about the world beyond the story arc context.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Forum participants aren't representative of the D&D fan-base as a whole. The average age on these forums is mid to late 40s, about 15-20 years older than the average EN World visitor, if memory serves. Meaning, the average forum user remembers Dragonlance as a kid, and probably fondly, while the average D&D player has actually played in the Realms and would probably be far more interested in knowing about the world beyond the story arc context.

Without any polling or survey data, this is just a theory. I can make my own theories that point to the exact opposite conclusion.

And I'll be the first to mention the only really useful survey is the one done by WotC itself (D&D Monthly Survey | Dungeons & Dragons), but this survey coincidentally happened two months before the SCAG was released.

The only group who likely has good market research on what setting people want updated is WotC itself. I find it telling that they haven't made an updated Realms book; it points to people not actually wanting a 2nd Realms book.