D&D 5E The case for (and against) a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book

[Demetrios1453]

Now I know someone will say, "But FR needs all that stuff too! So it does need a new book!"

FR does not need that stuff - as you said, it's in other books. Dump that useless-for-FR 77 pages back into gazetteer-type setting material, and you'd probably make most people who are wanting a new FRCS happy.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Then again, like others have said, new gamers may love the other setting books so much, and the fact the Realms is so massive and has so much to cover, that it may not be considered a good enough seller to ever publish a Campaign Guide again. I hate to say it, but it is mostly us old-timers who appreciate the huge 300-400+ page books. In this age of social media and shorter attention spans and 15 minutes of fame crap, a book in the 150-250 page length is probably more appealing to newer, younger gamers.

So... what about those 320-page setting books that have been selling like hotcakes then?

 

[Fenris-77]

Who is "we," Kimusabe?

The thing is, SCAG covers the needs of most new players who just picked up the Starter Set and Descent into Avernus just fine, or who play in AL.

Or any players who don't really homebrew much. There is enough material for 5e that a group could game for years without ever brewing a stitch of their own material. Extensive home campaign design isn't the obvious default D&D player I don't think, or at least not the way it used to be (IMO of course).

 

[Demetrios1453]

Honestly, I'm wondering of the best way out of this conundrum would be to release an updated "special edition" SCAG, with expanded page count (the full 320 would be nice, but any significant change in page count would be welcome) and new cover art. Seemed to have worked for Tyranny of Dragons, although the changes here would probably be on a larger scale.

 

[Parmandur]

Or any players who don't really homebrew much. There is enough material for 5e that a group could game for years without ever brewing a stitch of their own material. Extensive home campaign design isn't the obvious default D&D player I don't think, or at least not the way it used to be (IMO of course).

I'd say it probably still is. Obviously, the demographics have changed the past few years, with the millions of young people picking the game up, bit homwbrew is probably still the dominant playstyle. However, the dominant fashion for jomebrew is also probably going to be Standard Heroic Fantasy, where it is pretty easy to pick up Descent into Avernus and file off all the serial numbers and drop in a new world.

The current FR product line makes a lot of sense when viewed as bit servicing FR fans and Homebrewers who want thematically targeted modular parts.

 

[BRayne]

So... what about those 320-page setting books that have been selling like hotcakes then?

Yeah the "short modern attention span" thing kinda fails as a concept when put against the fact that the very successful, and more "modern crowd focused" recent setting is 304 pages and based on a property which has over 200 ~4 hour episodes.

 

[teitan]

Do you want to try that again? I don't think the COVID-19 rhetoric really works in a buy-this-but-not-that argument about RPGs. Maybe you're kidding? IDK. I hope so.

No, I’m not. People are out of work in record numbers. I’m stating a fact that many may not like but it is a fact. It is financially irresponsible to pay 50 bucks for 32-50 pages of material. Ten years ago we would have been counting pages and measuring the page count to cost to determine value in books we purchased for gaming. Sourcebooks had greater value To the dollar in those days With useable material to drop into any campaign while now the focus is on modules/adventures and it’s great don’t get me wrong and that material adds value to those adventures but if I’m not running the adventure then how is it responsible, with the current uncertainty, to pay fifty bucks for Avernus for the Baldur’s Gate section for my home brew game in Baldur’s Gate as some suggest the material be used? Personally I don’t have money issues, I have an essential job but these are questions we need to ask right now and for the foreseeable future as the market is going to change the longer this Recession continues. We may be seeing people return to work but it’s also slow and unsteady and could fall apart in a matter of months if not handled correctly which, if you watch the news and how people are going about their business it is not. These are necessary things to think about and not act like pie in the sky everything is hunky dory. A few months ago sure, tell em to buy Avernus, it’s got the BG gazetteer, vehicle rules, awesome monsters and a Mad Max inspired gonzo adventure in it. Now? I don’t know someone’s financial situation so I’d rather have a good FRCS book to point people to than tell them to buy the SCAG. Me? I’m planning a Wildemount game after my Waterdeep campaign.

 

[Parmandur]

Honestly, I'm wondering of the best way out of this conundrum would be to release an updated "special edition" SCAG, with expanded page count (the full 320 would be nice, but any significant change in page count would be welcome) and new cover art. Seemed to have worked for Tyranny of Dragons, although the changes here would probably be on a larger scale.

I don't forsee that happening: WotC path forwards of treating the SCAG as a sort of base, with the Adventure books being DLC, seems to be working for them. It's literally the longest WotC has ever stuck with a D&D strategy. I don't think they feel there is a conundrum at all.

 

[Fenris-77]

@teitan - You don't get to rate the value of my purchases period, never mind for complete luxuries like gaming. I find the notion sort of offensive actually.

 

[teitan]

I didn't say the SCAG was poorly recieved?



Others have responded to you on the scale point, but I'll respond to the "But Eberron's book is longer" point.

Eberron's book is longer because it adds a slew of new races (and re-adds others like orcs/gobbos), an entirely new class, and an adventure. It is not double the amount of "gazzetteer material" covering the areas/lands.


I mean, the most ardent defender of FR here (who I believe has recently left this forum, as I can't summon him), literally does want an encyclopedia of Realms information that is 800+ pages. And I've seen several people on the "What about the Realms???" literally ask for that thing. The poster above me has literally said they would buy 10 boxes on different regions of the Realms.

Now, I'm not a Realms hater, I think it serves it's purpose. I just find the argument for an entirely new Realms Setting book a weak one. In fact, I'll compare the SCAG in page count to Eberron;

SCAG:
Preface and Chapters 1-2 (Setting Material): 95 pages
Chapter 3: Races (Character Options): 15
Ch 4: Classes (Character Options): 20
Ch 5: Backgrounds (Character Options): 9

Eberron:
Preface (Setting Material): 11 pages
Chapter 1: Character Options: 81
Ch 2: Khorvaire (Setting Material): 61
Ch 3: Sharn (literally one city, but still setting material): 29 pages
Ch 4: Building Adventures (Adventure Toolkit): 77
Ch 5: Treasures (Magic Items): 6
Ch 6: Friends and Foes (Statblocks): 37

If we actually compare these two back-to-back, SCAG actually has more setting material, especially when you consider that 29 pages are devoted entirely to one city, Sharn. The bulk of the Eberron book is coming from the Character Options (way more than in the SCAG), it's adventure toolkit, items and statblocks.

Now I know someone will say, "But FR needs all that stuff too! So it does need a new book!" Except you already have that; there are adventure toolkits and new items and new stablocks for FR all over published material, as every single adventure book and two starter boxes are all set in FR. The material is there, it's just scattered over several different books. Collected, it overwhelms all the Eberron material.

I'll reiterate that I think Laeral Silverhands Explorer's Kit should be refit into an actual boxed set for beginners, adding more character options and an original adventure, for new players to quickly jump into Realms games. But I also believe that future adventures are going to keep releasing FR material, and that it's fans should sit happy with all the content they're getting as D&D 5E default setting.

Hey I get it and hardcore supporters are not the average person saying “we want this and not that”. To take the least common denominator to define what people are asking for is bad business. But it’s pretty clear people want an updated version of the FRCS and then region books like the way it was always done before 4e. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable expectation. I don’t think it’s going to happen either. I have made arguments for a full scale FR book aka the 3e book because it’s more practical but I think that it makes more sense for WOTC to go wholesale on the SCAG treatment and do region guides once a year. The Sword Coast is great but eventually it will get to the point where they aren’t “realms shaking events” but “sword Coast blowing everything up events”! Then we have the dale lands all over again. but taking the old FR coded sourcebooks as a model and doing $35 sourcebooks, once a year with a storyline adventure book that highlights the setting? That could be really smart.