Pathfinder 2E Actual AP Play Experience

[CapnZapp]

I know that is what you wanted; however, I don't know if the AP is really the way Paizo "intended." It is possible they didn't fully understand the ramifications of some of the choices they made in the AP. With PF1 they had all of the previous 3e/3.5e experience to write PF1 adventures. With PF2 the are starting from scratch. It may take a bit to design APs that play as "intended."

I really don't what else we could pick up to get as close to the "on brand" experience shrug

 

[dave2008]

I really don't what else we could pick up to get as close to the "on brand" experience shrug

I agree, I'm just suggesting that Paizo may not have figured it out themselves yet. Nothing you can do about that though.

 

[Porridge]

So in summary, I'm struggling a bit with the format. The tl;dr: might be "GM gets momentary fatigue with hard slogs".

As far as I can see, official APs are geared towards players who enjoy every fight being an isolated challenge, players who are okay with skipping over the easy parts, and players who don't think too hard about logic and verisimilitude.

Spoiler: musings on 4E (please take 4E discussion elsewhere, this is a PF2 thread)

Which to me is too similar to my objections of 4E. (I need to be very clear: the game does not play anything like 4E. PF2 is not 4E. But there are too many... philosophical similarities and design sensibilites... that carry across for me to be truly happy)

I think I need to downgrade some of the encounters for my own sake. If the party could power through more encounters without having to break off adventuring for 20 or 60 or 80 minutes, that would kill two flies with the same stone: it adds desperately needed variety (of the "we're awesome" kind, mind you, since the other kind of variety, "we're completely outclassed", is not as needed ) and it helps me explain why the remaining monsters haven't had time to react to the invaders. It would also mean that the non-social less-fun half of the AP (the trog dungeons) runs a wee bit quicker.

Thanks for the report. Interesting to hear what other people’s experiences have been.

One interesting thing I’ve noticed is how different the difficulty level is for a party that’s been built to work together.

I ran a relatively optimized party (Fighter (Wizard MC), Rogue, Primal Sorcerer, Shield Mountain Monk) through the first part of Age of Ashes, and had an experience similar to yours.

Then I ran a party through the first part of Extinction Curse, where three of the four party members were built in concert. (The Barbarian had Raging Intimidation and the Adopted Ancestry feat (Hobgoblin) for Remorseless Lash (to extend frightened conditions), the Druid had a Hyena animal companion to inflict the frightened condition on enemies they hit, and the Bard was built to demoralize and had the Fear spell.) Even though the fourth party member (an Alchemist) contributed relatively little beyond Recall Knowledge checks, the party had a much easier time. Enemies were almost always frightened and flanked, and with the PCs boosted by Inspire Courage, they were critting pretty regularly.

...but even the second party almost always took a 10-20 min rest between combats.

 

[CapnZapp]

I agree, I'm just suggesting that Paizo may not have figured it out themselves yet. Nothing you can do about that though.

Sorry but I really don't see the point.

I'm judging Pathfinder 2 based on what the game is today, not years into the future. Just like I bailed on 4E without waiting for Essentials, just like I'm discussing 5E without taking Unearthed Arcana into account.

 

[dave2008]

Sorry but I really don't see the point.

You are free to play the game and frame the discussion however you want. I was just reacting to the point you made about playing the game as "intended," and you using that concept as a crutch to not make the AP more your own.

I personally don't get it, but I can't really use published adventurers anyway ( I don't get them) so it is best if I just drop out of this conversation.

 

[Celtavian]

I am experiencing a similar reality. I don't mind it as much as it is far preferable to have to tone down encounters than to figure out how to make them challenging. This is the first run through PF2 APs. It may take some time to find a sweet spot for encounter design to accomplish the feel you want for an encounter.

I find it very refreshing that encounters are so challenging. Though one of the APs had a series of encounters that was very rough on the party to go through all of them. It may take some time for the players and DMs to learn to preserve resources and run a continuous series of encounters. I'm sure the designers will get better at this as time goes on and create encounters with greater verisimilitude. If they can't do it, then DMs can step up and get it done knowing that the math is more balanced and they can accomplish what they want with modification of number and challenge level of enemy rather than modifying individual monster stat blocks.

But I've always had to modify APs, usually to make them more challenging. This is the first time I've had to think about modifying APs to make them less challenging. It is extremely refreshing.

Just to add to the info lvl 11 is a big power bump as well. Martials seem to get quite a few power increases at lvl 11.

 

[dave2008]

I am experiencing a similar reality. I don't mind it as much as it is far preferable to have to tone down encounters than to figure out how to make them challenging.

Why is that? I am not familiar with PF2e in play, but I find it trivially easy to make encounters challenging for my players in 1e, 4e, and 5e of D&D. What is different about PF1 or PF2 that makes that difficult?

I find it very refreshing that encounters are so challenging. Though one of the APs had a series of encounters that was very rough on the party to go through all of them.

OK, maybe that is the issue. I never run APs, so maybe that's why it is easy for me!

 

[Puggins]

Sounds more like you're burnt out on the adventure path philosophy instead of the system. I don't blame you- I'm in the same boat. Like the system well enough, but APs are really not working well for me.

 

[Porridge]

I feel like part of the issue has to do with the transition to level 1-20 APs.

In the PF1 APs, which ran from levels 1 to somewhere in the 13-17 range, they had space to let the adventure breathe a bit, and could sprinkle in a fair number of easy fights.

But now that the APs run from level 1-20, they have to cram as much XP into each encounter as possible. And the easiest way to do that is to make them really challenging fights...

 

[CapnZapp]

You are free to play the game and frame the discussion however you want. I was just reacting to the point you made about playing the game as "intended," and you using that concept as a crutch to not make the AP more your own.

I personally don't get it, but I can't really use published adventurers anyway ( I don't get them) so it is best if I just drop out of this conversation.

Nah, I just commented on the idea that there is some kind of ideal mythic Paizo way out there that they themselves haven't managed to put on paper. To me, that's cutting them way too much slack.

You making suggestions on how to make scenarios my own, OTOH, is appreciated.