D&D 5E What Level 20 Class Would Win?

[DND_Reborn]

Monks can escape most anything quite easily. An open monk would have sanctuary on him, meaning magic missile barrages become less likely to completely hit. But they are also less likely to get hit by something from an initial strike, giving them time for invisibility.

Astral Projection moves them in and out of banishments or anything that could lock down their position.

Shadow monks can cast darkness and teleport to the darkness they create.

4-elemonks can squeeze through anything that has openings with gaseous form.

I'm hardly worried about Sanctuary since once the monk attacks, it is gone. But with 100 rounds and dozens of spells, infinite cantrip damage, etc. the Monk will probably fall. Sure, you can reroll a save, but invisibility is only 10 rounds per use, and Astral Projection leaves your body behind so that isn't a good idea.

I mean, in 20 rounds a Wizard can do over 400 hp damage from magic missiles alone...

This is like playing in a casino where the odds were stacked against everyone else but the house wants to make it appear fair. Strap these spellcasters in a 30ft radius Coliseum and let's see who wins then? How about we randomly assort the spellcaster's spell list so they can't predict their enemies moves. Or we could require the participants to adapt to a changing environment.

LOL I would prefer tight quarters! Man, that means I don't have to worry about ranges really. But random spell lists? No, then you might as well pick random builds as well.

The whole point of the OP was that you know what you'll be facing. I don't really like that myself, and was more thinking along the lines what my character's default list would normally be.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I think the reason WotC was not so concerned about it was that the high level Big Bad is going to have legendary resistances and it's not a dueling game, it's a team adventuring game. Do note that it is written so that anyone who has an ability to add to a saving roll after failing it (Battle Magic Wizard, Divine Soul Sorcerer, I'm sure more that I'm not thinking of) can effectively auto defeat this ability. But yeah, it's extremely powerful, and in most situations fairly broken when combined with top tier spells, especially since you can do it multiple times and it seems OP just to be able to do it once.

Yeah, they can add or reroll, but a lot of them are limited more than this ability is. You can do it 5 times as the Chronurgist without dying.

 

[DND_Reborn]

In case anyone doesn't know these, Chronurgists can do the following:
Convergent Future
14th-level Chronurgy Magic feature

You can peer through possible futures and magically pull one of them into events around you, ensuring a particular outcome. When you or a creature you can see within 60 feet of you makes an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to ignore the die roll and decide whether the number rolled is the minimum needed to succeed or one less than that number (your choice).

When you use this feature, you gain one level of exhaustion. Only by finishing a long rest can you remove a level of exhaustion gained in this way.

and

Temporal Shunt
5th-level transmutation

Casting Time: 1 reaction, taken when a creature you can see makes an attack roll or starts to cast a spell

Range: 120 feet

Components: V, S

Duration: 1 round

You target the triggering creature, which must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or vanish, being thrown to another point in time and causing the attack to miss or the spell to be wasted. At the start of its next turn, the target reappears where it was or in the closest unoccupied space. The target doesn’t remember you casting the spell or being affected by it.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 6th level or higher, you can target one additional creature for each slot level above 5th. All targets must be within 30 feet of each other.



Both of these can very nearly guarantee a win for a Chronurgist.

LOL this is why I will never use the crap from Critical Role. I can't believe WotC even let this stuff into the game...

This kind of garbage is even more broken than Simulacrum...

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

LOL this is why I will never use the crap from Critical Role. I can't believe WotC even let this stuff into the game...

This kind of garbage is even more broken than Simulacrum...

Yeah, it probably should've been playtested beforehand.

(It's more broken than the original Healing Spirit)

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

LOL this is why I will never use the crap from Critical Role. I can't believe WotC even let this stuff into the game...

This kind of garbage is even more broken than Simulacrum...

It's pretty powerful but not as powerful as Simulacrum, and about as powerful as Portent for making a creature fail their save. Yes, all three of your portent rolls could be too high but then you are probably targeting the wrong saving throw.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I should probably clarify my statement. I was kind of thinking the 5E Bard seems weaker to me than in previous editions, I just didn't articulate it correctly. But you may be right as I have never played one in 5E and only going off of my assumptions from what I read in the PHB and not actual game play.

I think further experience will likely alter your perceptions. The general consensus is that bards are very strong in 5e. They get full spellcasting, and Magical Secrets allows them cherry pick any spells they want from any class lists, from cantrips all the way up to 9th-level spells. Their Jack of All trades ability gives them a rare bonus to initiative. Plus, they are great at skills due to said Jack of All Trades, Expertise, and an extra class skill. They can do a lot of stuff themselves, and they have their party support capabilities through Bardic Inspiration and spells. For subclasses, a Lore Bard's Cutting Words feature is also considered really strong, and they get early access to Magical Secrets plus extra skills.

That said, what they do not come with out of the box is good damage output, whether at-will or limited resource. You can, however, opt-in to that via Magical Secrets. Valor Bard gets Extra Attack, but honestly (and sadly for the Valor Bard), just picking up green-flame blade or booming blade with Additional Magical Secrets allows Lore Bard to be at least as effective in melee without needing to split their stats three ways like a Valor Bard needs to (need both Dex and Str in addition to Charisma). And if you prefer ranged, just take eldritch blast for your attack. Either way, you could also take hex or hunter's mark if you wanted more melee damage.

Lore Bard might be the strongest overall bard subclass because the ability to grab any two spells of up to 3rd level when they are 6th level is huge for flexibility of the character during mid-levels.

 

[FrogReaver]

So no prep. That means no contingency, no simulacrum, no make armor, etc.

I don’t necessarily agree with taking away the wizards toys in the name of fairness but if we are then it only seems that will help the sorcerer.

also starting 30 ft away with no prebuff a seems a death sentence for any wizard vs a sorcerer.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Yeah, the distance is debatable. I think it has to be around 30 feet for melee characters to have a chance, though, except rogues and monks.

 

[Raduin711]

So, not 6000 gp, only 1500 gp, and again not DM fiat. After all, the DMG recommends a minimum of 20000 gp at tier 4:
View attachment 122653

The answer is... A fighter.
With Daern's Instant Fortress and 20,000 gp worth of the best hirelings money can buy.
Come at me bro.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Right, but the premise assumed no magic items. Hence the impossible odds for the non-spellcasters.

Unless the DM wisely rules that a wizards Spell Focus and Spell Component Bag counts as "magical items".
Personally, if the rules for a battle state "...oh yeah, no magic items", then the person who wrote them has basically decided that spellcasters are going to win. It's like saying "nobody playing poker at this table is allowed to see the River...except for Bob, Jan, Henry and Susan; they can because they're professional poker players and it would be unfair to them to not allow them to see all the cards".

^_^

Paul L. Ming