D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[Xenonnonex]

But they haven't gone for enough, IMO. Saying 'make the game your own' isn't stopping people from saying, this race represents 'xyz' and that insults me, you must change it!

They have to be clear that no assumptions have been made and give people the tools to change things.

They need to codify ways to homebrew and change things. The DMG does this a bit with some of the expanded rules.. They need to go into more details of how to create and balance feats, tweak and invent races.

It's just not obvious for a lot of people.

Wizards have said multiple times your games are your own. Rules are there to help. But make judgment calls your own. Multiple. Many times. People still do not understand. That is on them. Just as bland uninteresting races are on them.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I like the idea of an in-game explanation for orcs as a non-evil race by default. I’m afraid that will take to that branch that remains evil, much like drows now. The fel orcs from Warcraft. I’m glad WoW players do not campaign for fel orcs as a playable race!

 

[Maxperson]

Have to sleep. If you different religion and culture means off human. That is too simplistic. But sure believe that.

Well, no. There are many human societies with different cultures and religions that are human. To me orc means non-human. Orcs have a different evolution and are effectively aliens as far as how they would behave. If you look at science articles theorizing about aliens, most of them say not to expect them to think and behave like we do.

How orcs react to their cultural and historical experiences should be different than how humans react to theirs. In a fantasy world with a powerful god also acting on orc behavior, it adds another reason for them to not act like humans.

 

[TheSword]

Seems the early assessment was spot on - no compromise. Evils only orcs cannot exist in any WOTC published setting.

Yes that is correct, monolithically evil humanoid are a problem. Hence them potentially changing the way they approach gnolls to be fiends.

Though the monstrous humanoids will still be there, they will can still largely be evil still and can still be used as such in published adventures and home campaigns without problem. There is no downside to it, other than an argument for heritage which was already being unwound by 3e anyway.

 

[Maxperson]

Wizards have said multiple times your games are your own. Rules are there to help. But make judgment calls your own. Multiple. Many times. People still do not understand. That is on them. Just as bland uninteresting races are on them.

Why does this only apply to us? It seems like it should apply to both sides of this issue.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Well, no. There are many human societies with different cultures and religions that are human. To me orc means non-human. Orcs have a different evolution and are effectively aliens as far as how they would behave. If you look at science articles theorizing about aliens, most of them say not to expect them to think and behave like we do.

How orcs react to their cultural and historical experiences should be different than how humans react to theirs. In a fantasy world with a powerful god also acting on orc behavior, it adds another reason for them to not act like humans.

Have posted Keith Baker orcs.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Why does this only apply to us? It seems like it should apply to both sides of this issue.

Show me where I said that only applies to your side. Why even make that accusation.

 

[TheSword]

Why does this only apply to us? It seems like it should apply to both sides of this issue.

It is easier to start from a place that is inclusive and become less inclusive if your game can adapt rather than start from a place that might put people off and then loosen things up when forced too because you feel obliged (or worse, miss the signs and make someone not have fun).

Also in stores, larger clubs and cons, core rules will always dominate because of the varied nature of players and expectations of different tables. In those circumstances there has to be some kind of baseline standard. I also think stores and cons are the two places where these problematic issues are most likely to occur with DMs under pressures and dealing with players they may not know.

 

[FrogReaver]

Show me where I said that only applies to your side. Why even make that accusation.

probably where you only stated that as something those wanting evil orcs can do instead of also stating that’s also what those wanting no evil orcs can do.

if that’s not your opinion I apologize but whether you uttered those exact words or not it seems to be your take, but I’m willing to admit I’m wrong about that if you’ll state your opinion on the matter.

 

[FrogReaver]

It is easier to start from a place that is inclusive and become less inclusive if your game can adapt rather than start from a place that might put people off and then loosen things up when forced too because you feel obliged (or worse, miss the signs and make someone not have fun).

Also in stores, larger clubs and cons, core rules will always dominate because of the varied nature of players and expectations of different tables. In those circumstances there has to be some kind of baseline standard. I also think stores and cons are the two places where these problematic issues are most likely to occur with DMs under pressures and dealing with players they may not know.

there you go again labeling my position as non-inclusive... thats very offensive