D&D 5E How should be the future Oriental Adventures.

[Derren]

If Asians are saying oriental is a word they dislike. Because of racist connotations. Because of outdated concepts. Listen. And do not use it.
Do not simply decide this should be kept because of nostalgia. Do not simply decide this is okay because of perceived and biased opinions.
The world has progressed. Involve cultural consultants.

And who are those "Asians"? From the news a couple of Asian Americans so, technically, not Asians.
Who is allowed to speak for a culture, or in this case large group of cultures?

This is really starting to look like a second satan panic with a small, vocal minority enforcing censorship.

Any member of a minority can speak up. You don’t get to tell people not to be offended, even if they’re not the majority of their minority.

 

[Xenonnonex]

And who are those "Asians"? From the news a couple of Asian Americans so, technically, not Asians.
Who is allowed to speak for a culture, or in this case large group of cultures?

This is really starting to look like a second satan panic with a small, vocal minority enforcing censorship.

Presumably their families are Asian. So hence Asian. You do not get to decide who is Asian. You are not that authority. Any more on this is laughable. And irrelevant.

If the group is diverse then perhaps they can act as spokespeople. Interviews would be better. And petitions. But it would be a start.

More dialogue needs to happen.

 

[Mirtek]

Meh, screw 'em. Can't capitulate to totalitarian authoritarism (regardless of country).

A lot bigger companies than WotC have

 

[Urriak Uruk]

On the other hand, 90% of Native Americans respond in polls that they don't have a problem with Indian sports names but a vocal 10% are always trying to force their views onto the rest of society. I assume the same thing is going on here with the word Oriental.

Off-topic, but the polls showing that 90% of NA support the team's naming was commissioned by Sport's Illustrated (a pretty biased outlet) in 2002, and had some pretty flawed methodology.

California State University did a study that found 67% disapproved, and UC Berekeley did a study this year showing 49% of NA disapproved (38% were not bothered). The Berkeley study also showed that NA engaged in tribal activity, resided on tribal land, and were younger were far more likely to disapprove compared to those who simply identified as NA.

TLDR: The 90% study is thrown around a lot but is mostly bunk.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I want to point out, for folks who don't know, that there is already great D&D content by creators of Asian ancestry, like in the Unbreakable anthology...

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

Like, hire some of these folks and give them the budget to make an original fantasy world. Something vibrant and modern yet drawing on the old traditions and folklores. Something that is to 2020 what Avatar: The Last Airbender was to 2005, except with Asian creative leads all the way down to Asian creative staff.

I have a lot of names I could recommend from #RPGSEA, just to start with.

Check out Asians Represent! They have exciting Asian creators visiting every episode and they even did the work of a 26-hour video series full of guest experts to dissect OA and discuss it. And that's not on their paid time. Imagine if they got funding to do this in a really organised way.

I'm surprised we are still debating this when @Tun Kai Poh makes pretty much the perfect argument here.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

All this talk about theoretical non-expat D&D players in Asia, but I think they're a smaller group than D&D players who are from predominantly English speaking countries of significance (USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK and Ireland) and happen to be of Asian backgrounds.

 

[Horwath]

If Asians are saying oriental is a word they dislike. Because of racist connotations. Because of outdated concepts. Listen. And do not use it.
Do not simply decide this should be kept because of nostalgia. Do not simply decide this is okay because of perceived and biased opinions.
The world has progressed. Involve cultural consultants.

Do Asian people live in Kara-Tur?
No.

Is Faerun the default continent of Abeir-Toril?
Yes.

Is Kara-Tur east of Faerun?
Yes.

Does orient mean east/easter of...?
Yes.


Now, I would never call Asian person oriental unless they wanted to be called that way, but I see no problem that some fantasy setting is called Oriental because it is eastern of the "default" fantasy setting within overall larger fantasy setting called Abeir-Toril.

 

[ART!]

On the other hand, 90% of Native Americans respond in polls that they don't have a problem with Indian sports names but a vocal 10% are always trying to force their views onto the rest of society. I assume the same thing is going on here with the word Oriental.

This is not true.

Like a lot of people, you probably heard this directly or indirectly from a 2016 Washington Post poll whose published results were widely publicized.

More recent and more scientific data give us very different numbers. In a University of Michigan and UC Berkeley survey, about half of the participants were offended by the Washington Redskins’ name, and the respondents were even more strongly opposed to the tomahawk chops, war cries, and mockeries of Native American dances.

Diversity among Native Americans makes polling very difficult. When a national survey is taken, most respondents from any one subgroup are likely to live in just a few areas, yielding a highly clustered subsample. If the cultural patterns of a particular tribal group are strongly related to the survey subject, that clustering reduces the national precision of the results.

 

[tommybahama]

This is not true.

Like a lot of people, you probably heard this directly or indirectly from a 2016 Washington Post poll whose published results were widely publicized.

More recent and more scientific data give us very different numbers. In a University of Michigan and UC Berkeley survey

I already dealt with that here. That "scientific data" was just another poll. It was heavily skewed towards women and LBGTQ. They found less than 50% of the Native population was offended.

From your link, "I think there’s a way in which we can reach out to fans to help them to understand that they are contributing to the dehumanization of Native people." Their poll may have been 'scientific' but they also had an agenda.

Edit: I still can't find any polling on Asians regarding the word Oriental.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I already dealt with that here. That "scientific data" was just another poll. It was heavily skewed towards women and LBGTQ. They found less than 50% of the Native population was offended.

From your link, "I think there’s a way in which we can reach out to fans to help them to understand that they are contributing to the dehumanization of Native people." Their poll may have been 'scientific' but they also had an agenda.

Edit: I still can't find any polling on Asians regarding the word Oriental.

Maybe you should check out this article, because if you think that that poll is unscientific, the other polls are much worse.

Washington Redskins’ name, Native mascots offend more than previously reported

A group protests the Washington Redskins name across from Levi’s Stadium before a 2014 NFL football game between the Redskins and the San Francisco 49ers. (AP Photo by Tony Avelar) Contrary to polls showing that relatively few Native Americans take ...

news.berkeley.edu