D&D 5E What Makes an Orc an Orc?

[Crimson Longinus]

And if someone in my game was offended by something, I'd remove it from my game. I want the players in my game to have fun. People don't have to use anything they are offended by.

And now WotC can do the same.

Those goes back to day and night, though. Day brought the sun, warmth, crop growth, greater vision to spot dangers, etc. Night brought cold, dangerous predators, hid dangers easily seen in the light of day, etc. It's not hard to see how white(day) was perceived as good by ancient cultures and black(night) was perceived as evil.

Yeah, not working. It doesn't stop it coming across as blatantly racist.

 

[Charlaquin]

You ever been to eastern Kentucky? You ever read about eastern Kentucky? I'm going to hold it up as the example of what extreme poverty does to any place and people. Eastern Kentucky levels of poverty didn't happen because of systemic racism. Those people are mostly white and yet they are going to experience extremely disparate results when compared to the rest of the country.

Why does this matter? Because the condition of poverty and it's transmission from generation to generation is the cause of the disparate results. I'm not sure it actually matters what caused the increased poverty for any group. Breaking that cyclic chain of poverty is going to take the same measures.

1. Remove the initial cause - which for black people we presume was individual racism which caused the cycle of poverty has the greatest correlation to all other aspects of life. Except, constantly talking about race and racism and being victims of it and etc has a good chance of causing others to become more individually racist which will only perpetuate the cycle further or potentially lead to bloodshed if it does not. On some level the rhetoric being used is causing the very problem you seek to cure!

2. After the initial cause is handled then the way to end that kind of poverty is to provide economic opportunities.

This is... drifting pretty far from the topic but no, we don’t presume the initial cause of generational poverty was individual racism. It was a system of oppression and enslavement.

 

[Guest 6801328]

And if someone in my game was offended by something, I'd remove it from my game.

Then we've settled this debate.

There are people in your game (just not at your table) offended by something. They are asking for it be removed.

We good now?

 

[Wishbone]

And if someone in my game was offended by something, I'd remove it from my game. I want the players in my game to have fun. People don't have to use anything they are offended by.

It sounds like there's a lot of agreement here.

 

[FrogReaver]

This is... drifting pretty far from the topic but no, we don’t presume the initial cause of generational poverty was individual racism. It was a system of oppression and enslavement.

Half dozen of 1, 6 of the other?

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, not working. It doesn't stop it coming across as blatantly racist.

Perception does not equal reality. If you perceive it as racist, even though it's not, it doesn't become racist.

 

[Charlaquin]

Willful disagreement is a better fit. I can see a cogent argument that opposes my view; I just don’t think it holds water.

in short, I do not believe pretending to slay orcs has any real world effects on others or on my own valuing of others.

Ok, here’s (one of) the source(s) of disconnect. I don’t really care what effects pretending to slay orcs has or doesn’t have on your valuing of others. That’s between and whatever higher power you do or don’t believe in. What I care about is that people who belong to marginalized groups say that pretending to slay orcs makes them uncomfortable, and to me their comfort is more important than my own desire to pretend to slay orcs.

 

[FrogReaver]

Then we've settled this debate.

There are people in your game (just not at your table) offended by something. They are asking for it be removed.

We good now?

So if I ask for something to be removed will you advocate for its removal?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Or put the way you just put it, if in the history of the game we saw people become more and more racist in the real world after encountering orcs, you might have a point.

I don't expect you to agree with me, but I look at all the weak arguments offered to avoid having to change some fantasy lore, all the willful misunderstanding of the problem, all the blame put on the victims, all the disgusting paternalism and arrogance and....yeah, I'm not sure I believe that playing D&D doesn't make people more racist.

 

[Maxperson]

It sounds like there's a lot of agreement here.

I've already said that before, as well as my not having an issue with WotC changing the game. It's their game to change and this change is small, and easily ignored by those who want to ignore it. I just disagree with the reasons behind the change as I've been arguing here.