D&D 5E What To Do With Racial ASIs?

What would you like to see done with racial trait ASIs?

  • Leave them alone! It makes the races more distinctive.

    Votes: 81 47.4%
  • Make them floating +2 and +1 where you want them.

    Votes: 33 19.3%
  • Move them to class and/or background instead.

    Votes: 45 26.3%
  • Just get rid of them and boost point buy and the standard array.

    Votes: 17 9.9%
  • Remove them and forget them, they just aren't needed.

    Votes: 10 5.8%
  • Got another idea? Share it!

    Votes: 18 10.5%
  • Ok, I said leave them alone, darn it! (second vote)

    Votes: 41 24.0%
  • No, make them floating (second vote).

    Votes: 9 5.3%
  • Come on, just move them the class and/or backgrounds (second vote).

    Votes: 15 8.8%
  • Aw, just bump stuff so we don't need them (second vote).

    Votes: 4 2.3%
  • Or, just remove them and don't worry about it (second vote).

    Votes: 8 4.7%
  • But I said I have another idea to share! (second vote).

    Votes: 4 2.3%

As an aside, for people still following the thread and interested in the numbers for rolling 4d6-L 7 times and keeping the best 6, here is some more info:

View attachment 124151

Given the median and modes are identical, and align with rounding most of the averages, your typical scores would be:

16, 15, 13, 12, 11, 10

Now, this works out to a 34-point buy system, a bit higher than what I originally thought (by 1-2 points).

Anyway, those look like pretty good scores (removing racial ASIs as they are "baked in"), giving a PC a +3, +2, and two +1's.

An interesting thing came out of this for myself, personally. I've been using point-buy for all of 5E, and while this keeps a certain "balance" I find I typically use roughly the same scores or distribution for many of the characters I've made. I started to feel like there was a "sameyness" to them.

I think using this method I will roll scores again from now on. I've been playing around on AnyDice with the idea and see I am getting a much wider variety of scores (which I should, of course), and find I am enjoying that.

It's been a fun exercise. Hope it might help others who are interested in these ideas. :)

The current campaign I'm in the GM gave us a array of 16, 14, 14, 12, 12, 10.
 

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While I certainly agree with the thrust of your examples (you make a very valid point)...



This favors every class really.



Right, but over generalized. It favors any melee class.



This loosely favors CHA-based characters due to the DC for the Hellish Rebuke, but otherwise any class benefits from it IMO.



I see your thinking, but again this can benefit any class (with the appropriate background) that take proficiency in Hide. A caster being able to hide from opponents in the right environment can easily find this useful for instance.



It favors casters, not melee classes. Melee classes (for the most part) already get weapons and armor these racial traits give--so they are really redundant for melee classes. In particular, it mostly favors Bards, Sorcerers, Warlock, and Wizards since Clerics already have Light and Medium armor and Druids can't wear most Medium armors.

All that being said, I do agree some racial traits favor certain classes, but maybe not to the extent you are thinking?
If what you say is true, then having an extra 5% in any stat, even ones outside of your main attributes, favors "any class." Therefore, there is no need to adjust the ASI's because charisma can favor "any class" even though it favors one a little less than another.
 


If what you say is true, then having an extra 5% in any stat, even ones outside of your main attributes, favors "any class." Therefore, there is no need to adjust the ASI's because charisma can favor "any class" even though it favors one a little less than another.
Well, obviously what I said is true... ;)

I think I am following you, but just to be certain, can you give a concrete example? Much appreciated.
 


Well, obviously what I said is true... ;)

I think I am following you, but just to be certain, can you give a concrete example? Much appreciated.
The entire concept of moving ASI's because they cause players to only pick certain races because that gives them an extra 5% to their main stat seems odd to me. I do not get it. It is changing a pillar of D&D for little or no reason imho. So when it was expressed that ASI's should move, but racial traits can stay because they don't "favor" a class. I pointed out that many racial traits do favor classes, melee, spellcasters, bards, and barbarians. If you refute that these things do not favor a class, great. I can't argue that. And in fact, like to encourage that type of character construction. For example, a barbarian that hides all the time. Obviously dark vision would be beneficial for this, as one cannot hide in the dark holding a lantern or torch. One can avoid tripping on noisy things if they can see where they are stepping. But the metagamer in me knows that it benefits the rogue more because they are the ones doing most of the stealth work. So yes, I like your thinking. And if more people approached it the way you just did, then we wouldn't need to have this discussion about moving ASI's. As any bonus anywhere can help any class. My tiefling barbarian can finally use intimidation because they have a charisma bonus. They may not have optimal strength, but they have intimidation, as an example. ;)
 

The entire concept of moving ASI's because they cause players to only pick certain races because that gives them an extra 5% to their main stat seems odd to me. I do not get it. It is changing a pillar of D&D for little or no reason imho.

I'm guessing you're just not seeing this happen at your tables, then. Either because you're players aren't limiting themselves or because you don't see those limits as an issue. If that's the case, of course the solution doesn't makes sense because even if it's game neutral it's at best a meaningless change.

But as someone who has seen this problem, and who sees it as a problem (as in: I've seen players choose not to play a character they thought would be interesting because the numbers didn't line up) - I've found that the solution (floating mods) fixes the problem with no downsides.

And part of what 'no downsides' includes is not damage to the worldbuilding. The rule doesn't suddenly make everyone change their view of elves as being lithe or orcs as being tall or dragonborn as being loud. Those tropes are still there - people still have a mental image of what a gnome looks like - they're just easier to subvert as a pc.

Since the other racial traits aren't seen as necessary to playing certain classes (ie no one thinks they can't play a rogue without Trance or a barbarian without Savage Attacks or a wizard without medium armor proficiency...) the need to free up the limit isn't there. They're not a limiter. So it's not a problem to be solved, therefore, as before, a change to 'solve' it isn't worthwhile.

Does that make sense?
 

So I was thinking...

If you want to maintain an element of racial connection to ability scores but still get rid of ASIs, make more racial traits tie to ability scores. For example, tieflings spell abilities are tied to Charisma. That will still mean tieflings who want to use them will gravitate towards Cha classes. Dragonborn and goliaths both have abilities based on Con. We can extend this to have stronger ties as well, such as wood elves adding dex mod to land speed.

You can still use some of these abilities if you don't put a high score in your races ability, but you get more mileage if you do.
 


That would bring numbers up higher than I like to see at level 1, but if it works for your table--great!

The entire concept of moving ASI's because they cause players to only pick certain races because that gives them an extra 5% to their main stat seems odd to me. I do not get it. It is changing a pillar of D&D for little or no reason imho. So when it was expressed that ASI's should move, but racial traits can stay because they don't "favor" a class. I pointed out that many racial traits do favor classes, melee, spellcasters, bards, and barbarians. If you refute that these things do not favor a class, great. I can't argue that. And in fact, like to encourage that type of character construction. For example, a barbarian that hides all the time. Obviously dark vision would be beneficial for this, as one cannot hide in the dark holding a lantern or torch. One can avoid tripping on noisy things if they can see where they are stepping. But the metagamer in me knows that it benefits the rogue more because they are the ones doing most of the stealth work. So yes, I like your thinking. And if more people approached it the way you just did, then we wouldn't need to have this discussion about moving ASI's. As any bonus anywhere can help any class. My tiefling barbarian can finally use intimidation because they have a charisma bonus. They may not have optimal strength, but they have intimidation, as an example. ;)

Well, I don't know... I felt like I was going in circles, so here is the short(er)-version:

My choice would be remove ASIs from race completely. No floating, no moving to class/background--just get rid of them. Why? Because if you want a high score someplace because you feel it either represents your race, class, and/or background--just put a high score there! You want it to be higher? Fine. Roll and hope you have good luck or bump it during game play, that's why 5E offers ASIs as you level (they aren't for feats--those are optional ;) ).

Once they are removed, replace them with racial traits (if needed) to show that a particular race is good at whatever. Yes, some of those "goodies" will still lend themselves towards certain classes--but really the vast majority of them can benefit any class if you play to them! That's important. If you can't think of a way (as I described before) then odds are you will feel at times anyway the PC is sub-optimal.

Finally, cap scores so the ones who show reason to have superior scores can have them. Maybe that is 18 and 20 for caps? Will that +1 make a difference? Depends on how important it is to you. The ASIs hardly matter to me. I played a Goliath Druid and used the STR +2 to get him from 8 to 10. Yeah! I didn't have to spend any points on it and it allowed me to put those points from point-buy where they would matter to me.

Anyway, since most people don't like lower numbers (I feel so alone at times! (j/k)), the next best option is just leave them alone. If you float them, they are meaningless. If you move them, the meaning shifts from race to class and/or background. If you just bump methods, you are basically simply saying "I want higher scores, I don't care how."

Failing all that, just keep them as is. As I showed with the Goliath Druid, I was able to put a lower score in STR because I got the +2 ASI for race, and that allowed me to have a better score where it mattered. If I had played a race with a bonus to WIS, I would have had to spend points to bump up my STR from 8 to 10 anyway...

Ok, I need a break... Time for lunch. :)

-------- The rest was the start of my original post, read at your own risk. ;) ---------

Well, just so you know my position, IME most players pick a class first and then look over the races that they think will fit the class concept. Because ASIs get associated with where they want to be strong, many players pick the races that compliment the key abilities for their chosen class. As others have pointed out that 5% might not seem like a lot, but depending on how you view it--to them it is. Human nature in general is to want the best--and in D&D that includes ability scores. Players will more often complain due to high scores. Admittedly, I am different. I have played for nearly 40 years and prefer when my character fails more often than succeeds--it makes the game more challenging for me.

As for the other racial traits favoring certain classes? Certainly, as I expressed I agree with you on that, but maybe just not to the same degree. A prime example to me would be the Goliath with Powerful Build. Such a PC can wear heavy armor, tote around a dozen of weapons, etc. more easily than even an Orc (which also is +2 STR) can do. This is more of an issue at our table because we use the variant rule for STR and encumbrance. So, a STR 16 can carry 80 lbs before suffering penalties. That is basically just plate armor, shield, and some weapons. You have hardly no room for gear as well. But, with Powerful Build that double to 160! Now, pack everything on you want for the most part! Classes such as rogues and wizards, etc. who normally don't carry much, won't benefit as much from that racial trait, they might not effectively benefit at all TBH.

So, for me, moving ASIs are more for those players who value that 5%, which IME is most of them. You will rarely find a PC of mine with an 18 until tier 3 and I've only ever had one PC with a 20 in anything! Occasionally, sure, but it is not often at all. I would rather those racial "highlights" (?) be shown by other features. Does being part of a "stronger" race mean more of them will likely be warriors? Probably. People naturally gravitate towards their strengths.

What it comes down to often is the player mindset and understanding in 5E you don't need to be +5 or +6 at level 1 to be effective and have fun with that PC. +4 works great IMO and I am okay with even a +3. Sure, I don't want to completely suck and have a +2, but it can still be done. :)

Now, you bring up an interesting example. The tiefling barbarian. (Thank you, by the way!) Yes, you can use your CHA +2 and be good at intimidation. But where are your other scores? Honestly? Odds are you will have a decent STR and DEX and CON. Why? Well, because of the Rage feature. The damage boost is only there with STR-based weapon attacks. You can't gain it when using DEX. DEX is still an uber-stat, important for just about so much you can't avoid it, especially since you can't wear heavy armor (you aren't proficient...). And CON? Well, that is pretty self-explanatory IMO. So, that leaves INT, WIS, and CHA. Tieflings get INT +1 and CHA +2. Well, if you have already gotten decent scores in STR/DEX/CON, odds are your mental scores won't be that great without having a severe problem elsewhere. By the time you put your CHA +2 into CHA, you might have a 14 in all likelihood? Well, that total +2 modifier will probably be as good as your STR anyway, which a lot of groups use for "physical" intimidation rolls.
 

One way I'd be OK with increasing flexibility is to get rid of subraces and just let players choose the secondary bonuses (and give some secondary bonuses to choose from to those races that do not have subraces.) It always seemed rather questionable to me that humans have cultures that do not really dictate their abilities (thank Athe!) but non-humans have weirdly specific subraces. So instead you could give gnomes +2 to Int and +1 to either Con or Dex and so forth. It would require some tinkering, but I'm sure one could make it work as pretty decent mid-point option between complete free float and the status quo.
 

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