D&D 5E (2014) Classes that Suck

[Campbell]

I just cannot take any analysis seriously that considers Warlocks weak. Maybe not the most interesting class to play, but definitely not weak.

 

[TheSword]

I guess we have different definitions of sucking. If yours is "literally, truly, completely unplayable in a fun way" mine is "worse enough when compared to another that it is noticeable in gameplay".

Yes we do have a different definition then. Because a ranger with four attacks in a round at level 5, half spell casting, a fighting style, good skills, and relatively good hp does not ‘suck’. It may not be as good as other classes but in 5e the gap between classes is insignificant in gameplay... and definitely compared to pathfinder or 3e.

Saying rangers ‘suck’ sounds to me like throwing toys out of a pram because it isn’t the best. Like refusing to wear the Nikes my parents bought me because they weren’t released this year.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

Sorcerer.... Well, sucks? lets see

The Shadow Sorcerer

The Shadow Sorcerer level 7 can Twin Polymorph into 2 Giant Ape. For ****ing powerful beats that deals +9 to hit, 3d10+6 x 4 with 150 HP.
As bonus action The Shadow Sorcerer uses Hound of III Omem that is a buffed Dire Wolf with Pack Taticks for free advantage, If the Hound hits, DC 13 or knock prone (OMG, Knock Prone against 3 ****ing powerful beast is a death sentense).
The best part is... The Hound apply disadvantage against all Sorcerer's Spells.
The Hound combo with Giant Apes and still apply disadvantage... It's insane...

Are you trying hide? The hound know your location.

The Sorcerer can deal 100 damage per turn (If all hits, HIGH CHANCE) + Sorcerer spells (With Disadvantage)...

It's long duration combo that is insane.
If the Sorcerer wants to spend more resources, the sorcerer can summon multiple hounds for still more insanity.

The Sneaky Mage.
The V. Human Shadow Sorcerer level 7 with Prodigy feat (Stealth expertise) and Ritual Caster for Find Familiar.
So, It's +10 Stealth Check + Familiar' help action for advantage.

Now the can cast spells against enemies with IMPUNITY. Yes, It's the power of SUBTLE SPELL.

The Hound of III Omem and Careful Fear or Hypnotic Pattern is too insane and your party will love you... It's literally a game changer, both spells is save or die.


With Sorcerer's FLEXIBLE CASTING, the sorcerer can spend all level 3 or lower spells slots into Sorcery points, then, Sorcery Points into higher level spells slots.
So, at level 7, the Sorcerer can cast Twin Polymoph 3x/DAY... Look. 3x day against once/day Wizard.
The Sorcerer 2 giant ape for 3 hours/day x Wizard 1 giant ape for 1 hour/day...
It isn't fair.

Moon Druid: "I'm a joke to you?"

The Divine Soul Sorcerer

​

With flexible casting, creating more 4th level spell slot, the DSS Controls 24 Undeads with Animate Dead (Against wizard at maximum 12) for 24 hours and still casts twinned Polymorph for 2 Giant Ape for 1 hour.

With Inspire Leadership feat, the Sorcerer add more 12 THP for each Skeleton and allies for extra Sweet HP. The Skeletons are with a longbow.
Damage per turn, If all hits. 4,5 (1d8) +2 = 6,5x 24 = 156 average damage per turn.
Two Giant ape with +9 to hit, for extra 90 average damage if all hits.

The Dragon Sorcerer​

Other combo that literally overshadow the Wizard.

Protector Aasimar Red Dragon Sorcerer level 6 with Elemental adept feat (Fire)

Action to activate Aasimar's Radiant Soul for extra sweet damage and flight speed.

Bonus action: Quicken Empowered Elemental Afinity FIREBALL

28 avg * 1,22 (Empower metamagic) +5 Elemental afinity +6 Radiant Soul.

45 avg AOE fire damage that ignores cover and fire resistence.

All in a single turn. No prebuff or concentration


Or just quicken empowered elemental afinity fireball that deals 40 avg damage
action for Empowered elemental afinity Fire bolt for 19 avg damage
It's 59 avg damage.


Wizard's fireball is avg 28 damage.

59 vs 28 is not even fair.

PS: You can swat Empower spell for Twin metamagic for the Sweet Twin Polymorph and Twin Firebolt.
Yes, Super Fireball + Twin Polymorph is avaiable.

The Sorcerer can use flexible casting to create more and more fireballs.
Sorcerer 6 fireballs/day vs Wizard 3 fireballs/day

Cool. Now do this with the Acid Dragon sorcerer or literally ANY OTHER sorcerer subclass. I'm so freaking tired of every damned sorcerer discussion turning into "fire sorcerers, devine souls, and shadow sorcerers are fine so therefore there is nothing wrong!" It is insufferably predictable and frankly downright obnoxious.

 

[TheSword]

Warlocks that can cast their most powerful spells 2-3 times per encounter (more with very accessible items like rod of the pact keeper or pearl of power for the encounter that needs it). How much would wizards give to have this power.

 

[ccs]

Warlocks only really need less invocation taxes (especially Pact of Blade), and more invocation support for other cantrips.

I won't disagree with that. They could also really use another spell slot per bracket. Or at least an extra slot devoted solely to the expanded spells granted by specific patrons.
I mean, you want to cast something that reflects the patron & pact you've chosen, but you only get two slots at a time to work with for most of a campaign....

That said? The Warlock is my favorite class as-is in 5e. You can do a lot of fun things with it as is. But it's also real easy to make yourself a bad, or worse, a boring Warlock. Especially if you're a new player.

 

[ccs]

Warlocks that can cast their most powerful spells 2-3 times per encounter (more with very accessible items like rod of the pact keeper or pearl of power for the encounter that needs it). How much would wizards give to have this power.

Easily accessible is extremely dependent upon how gaining magic items works at your table.

 

[TheSword]

Easily accessible is extremely dependent upon how gaining magic items works at your table.

They’re uncommon so one step removed from uncommon. There are rules for making them, there are rules for buying them and I would think most people of asking a reasonable DM for an uncommon item if they are underpowered would get a favourable answer... assuming they are of course underpowered... which is by no means a given.

 

[ccs]

They’re uncommon so one step removed from uncommon. There are rules for making them, there are rules for buying them and I would think most people of asking a reasonable DM for an uncommon item if they are underpowered would get a favourable answer... assuming they are of course underpowered... which is by no means a given.

DMs are not bound by the books to allow such buying/creation. Like I said, it depends.

 

[TheSword]

DMs are not bound by the books to allow such buying/creation. Like I said, it depends.

There are lots of things based on DM fiat that impact your enjoyment of a D&D game or its offshoots.

 

[Dr Magister]

My personal fix for the ranger is simply to let them add their proficiency bonus to weapon damage vs favoured enemies. It's not a huge boost, especially at higher levels, but it makes the feature feel relevant in combat.

For beastmasters, I've just said they can command their companion as a bonus action rather than a full action. However, in one of the modules that WoTC put out for free during the lockdown, there was a Rat King subclass who got rat swarms as companions, and they could command them using their reaction. Given this was an official module, possibly this is the direction they're thinking of going?