Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[CleverNickName]

Not a bad idea, but what is the logic behind the narrative for it? I understand casters who need to prepare spell and those with known spells, just as a BM has known maneuvers. But how can a fighter have learned something like a trick or tactic for a situation, but then forget it so he can "prepare" another?

FWIW, I'm not against the mechanic at all, but without a narrative support for it I find it hard to justify personally.

Narrative would be the way to go, and it wouldn't have to be a big deal. Preparing your martial abilities for the day wouldn't be all that different from preparing your wizard spells.

Wizard: spends an hour memorizing his spells and practicing his techniques. Gathers the spell components he will need, and sorts them in his spell component pouch so that he can access them quickly. Does vocal exercises so that he can properly enunciate the incantations on the fly. Meditates so that he can maintain focus and go into battle with a clear head.

Fighter: spends an hour inspecting her equipment and making adjustments (replacing bow strings, sharpening blades). Practices complicated maneuvers and combos to refresh her muscle memory and reflexes. Gathers the weapons and ammunition she will need, and sorts them, and straps them on so that she can access them quickly. Does stretches and exercises so that she can react quickly and strike true. Meditates so that she can maintain focus and go into battle with a clear head.

It doesn't feel very different to me.

 

[Asisreo]

We are talking about making a new game here. I don't think "house rule stuff you don't like" is helpful.

Is it a new game entirely or an expansion? We can't throw everything out of 5e and claim it's an expansion of 5e. If Level Up is meant to be a completely new game, fair. But since it's not, it should be much more about giving a compatible but different experience.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Part of that is simplicity. Having different weapons react to different skins in different ways is just slathering complexity onto something most people would rather keep simple.

I agree with keeping thing on the simple side, but we are talking about an Advanced system. IMHO, adding complexity is a little inevitable: it WILL be more complex than Basic 5e.

And, from the survey, I think adding more properties to weapons was well received.

Its not an hill I will personally die on, but I think these are legit asks when designing a system that goes deeper than Basic 5e.

 

[FrogReaver]

So are like, half of all mythological figures. if we take every single "has god-blood in their lineage" individual out, we are probably left with very slim pickings.




All excellent, though I think One Punch man is a bad example, because he is specifically designed to be far more powerful than anything ever.



Part of that is simplicity. Having different weapons react to different skins in different ways is just slathering complexity onto something most people would rather keep simple.



Sort of agree, from a different perspective

Why is the fighter who killed a dozen men in the civil war getting the barony instead of the Ranger who led the King's Army through the forest in a surprise flanking maneuver that won the day? Or the Bard whose inspiring speech rallied the King's forces to hold the line? Or the Cleric whose godly magic cured the King of the poisons threatening his life? Or the Wizard whose magic revealed that the Duke of CR was really a traitor to the crown and leading the rebellion?


Maybe this isn't your point, specifically, but this is why I find the "fighters will inevitably become landed nobles with armies" to be missing the point of the fiction. Anyone could be granted that land and those servants. Don't make it reliant on class. Make it a seperate sub-system, maybe have special perks where a Cleric can found a church instead of raising a barony, but don't make it part of every single level 12 fighter.

Anyone can make a deal with a devil. Anyone can serve the gods. Anyone can study arcane spells. Anyone could have dragon blood in their veins.

the premise for pretty much every class involves being guaranteed something anyone could potentially access via the fiction. Why should land and soldiers be different?

 

[FrogReaver]

I agree with keeping thing on the simple side, but we are talking about an Advanced system. IMHO, adding complexity is a little inevitable: it WILL be more complex than Basic 5e.

And, from the survey, I think adding more properties to weapons was well received.

Its not an hill I will personally die on, but I think these are legit asks when designing a system that goes deeper than Basic 5e.

weapon properties is different than having them interact differently to different monsters IMO

 

[Micah Sweet]

Is it a new game entirely or an expansion? We can't throw everything out of 5e and claim it's an expansion of 5e. If Level Up is meant to be a completely new game, fair. But since it's not, it should be much more about giving a compatible but different experience.

Morrus has said that it is a stand alone game that can be used by characters made with the 5e rules.

Again I have ask: what kind of changes to people actually want to make? I'm seeing a lot of pushback against complexity. Isn't this game going to be more complex by default? What do we think "crunchier 5e" actually is?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Is it a new game entirely or an expansion?

its a new game, based on the OGL/SRD (never know the difference...), so its use the same base as 5e: d20 rolls, classes, 20 levels, HP, timed recoveries, weapon damage. But the rest is fair game. It not a Morrus' Guide to Everything with a bunch of options and variants to add to your 5e game if you so desire. Its more in the vein of AiME or Beowulf, Donjon, Humblewood etc, but without the implicit setting.

 

[FrogReaver]

Morrus has said that it is a stand alone game that can be used by characters made with the 5e rules.

Again I have ask: what kind of changes to people actually want to make? I'm seeing a lot of pushback against complexity. Isn't this game going to be more complex by default? What do we think "crunchier 5e" actually is?

That doesn’t mean adding complexity for the sake of complexity.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That doesn’t mean adding complexity for the sake of complexity.

Ah, but we don't have agreement on what complexity is useful and what is needless. That's the question.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Narrative would be the way to go, and it wouldn't have to be a big deal. Preparing your martial abilities for the day wouldn't be all that different from preparing your wizard spells.

Wizard: spends an hour memorizing his spells and practicing his techniques. Gathers the spell components he will need, and sorts them in his spell component pouch so that he can access them quickly. Does vocal exercises so that he can properly enunciate the incantations on the fly. Meditates so that he can maintain focus and go into battle with a clear head.

Fighter: spends an hour inspecting her equipment and making adjustments (replacing bow strings, sharpening blades). Practices complicated maneuvers and combos to refresh her muscle memory and reflexes. Gathers the weapons and ammunition she will need, and sorts them, and straps them on so that she can access them quickly. Does stretches and exercises so that she can react quickly and strike true. Meditates so that she can maintain focus and go into battle with a clear head.

It doesn't feel very different to me.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant the narrative behind the tricks and tactics. Why can't they do them whenever they want? What, precisely, is there to "prepare"?

I'm not trying to be difficult, just clear. For example, maybe a trick like Pact Tactics?

The fighter spends time working with others (preparing), showing them how to more effectively complement each others movements and strikes. Then, before the next long rest, the recipient could choose a time to gain advantage against a foe already engaged with one of their allies. The fighter could give this advantage to a number of creatures equal to his CHA modifier or something (maybe proficiency bonus?). The fighter could choose himself as one of the recipients.

Another might be some sort of defensive bump? Something for exploration, like digging deep to allow them to reroll a failed ability check.

Are those the types of things you are thinking of?