D&D 4E Tropes of the Nentir Vale

[Aldarc]

That's both the strength and weakness of the Setting as a shadowy suggested Setting: Mearls and Mercer's campaigns are equally valid versions. I'm just saying, for publishing purposes, Exandria's spin on it being in print more or less sinks any future it has apart from Critical Role products.

It's less a spin on the Nentir Vale though and more of a spin on the World Axis mythos. That may seem like splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction IMHO. The value of the Nentir Vale is much as per the article that was linked before: it primarily exists as a GM toolkit. A world that exists primarily in ink sketch form. This is in stark contrast to more fleshed-out worlds like Exandria or Forgotten Realms, IMHO, which are worlds that to me feel more akin to full professional color art. I feel less able to personalize or customize a world like Exandria or the Realms; however, the Nentir Vale was basically a sandbox setting every time that I played it.

 

[Parmandur]

It's less a spin on the Nentir Vale though and more of a spin on the World Axis mythos. That may seem like splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction IMHO. The value of the Nentir Vale is much as per the article that was linked before: it primarily exists as a GM toolkit. A world that exists primarily in ink sketch form. This is in stark contrast to more fleshed-out worlds like Exandria or Forgotten Realms, IMHO, which are worlds that to me feel more akin to full professional color art. I feel less able to personalize or customize a world like Exandria or the Realms; however, the Nentir Vale was basically a sandbox setting every time that I played it.

Most of my experience has been with doing that toolbox approach with those big Settings, primarily Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms (the 3E FRCS, at least, insists that it is such a malleable toolbox, FWIW).

That's what really fascinated me at the time with the NV material, is that it was mandating using Setting material the way my group did with 3E in College already.

 

[Aldarc]

Most of my experience has been with doing that toolbox approach with those big Settings, primarily Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms (the 3E FRCS, at least, insists that it is such a malleable toolbox, FWIW).

That's what really fascinated me at the time with the NV material, is that it was mandating using Setting material the way my group did with 3E in College already.

With FR I always felt more like it was a setting where the popular D&D books took place and less of a game setting for me to use. This is why it doesn't feel like a malleable toolbox to me. In a similar vein, Exandria feels like the setting where Critical Role takes place and less of a game setting for me to use. I have a similar problem with a number of settings where the stories in the settings seemingly overshadow those settings. This is why I have little to no interest, for example, in roleplaying in Star Wars/Trek game or a supers game in the DC or Marvel universe.* Or maybe another analogy would be coloring books. Exandria and Forgotten Realms feel like coloring books that people have already used and colored-in that comes with instructions on the appropriate colors to use on each page. Nentir Vale feels like an unused coloring book with no instructions.

In comparison, Eberron exists mostly as a loose canon universe frozen in time and intentionally built with plot hooks and mysteries without answers. This makes Eberron for my purposes far more usable than Forgotten Realms. Nentir Vale gave the bare minimum and an implied setting that let people do their own thing with it. It would be nice if D&D made something more akin to that. Ghosts of Saltmarsh is close. But I would personally like to see Nentir Vale being used as a sample setting for a resource guide on running sandbox games in D&D because that would be an excellent fit.

* Simply saying that you and others have no problem running games in those universe really does not mean that I can or that I would find it enjoyable. You telling me that I can is not somehow going to magically cure an issue that I have had with roleplaying since I began at the beginning of my 3e days.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

It's less a spin on the Nentir Vale though and more of a spin on the World Axis mythos. That may seem like splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction IMHO. The value of the Nentir Vale is much as per the article that was linked before: it primarily exists as a GM toolkit. A world that exists primarily in ink sketch form. This is in stark contrast to more fleshed-out worlds like Exandria or Forgotten Realms, IMHO, which are worlds that to me feel more akin to full professional color art. I feel less able to personalize or customize a world like Exandria or the Realms; however, the Nentir Vale was basically a sandbox setting every time that I played it.

This actually sums up everything I don't like about Nentir Vale. If I want a sandbox setting I'm way more likely to create my own, or use something really obscure like Colville's Invincible Overlord setting.

I also have faith I can build a better sandbox than Nentir Vale... I have no such faith I can create an extremely detailed world like Exandria or FR.

 

[Parmandur]

With FR I always felt more like it was a setting where the popular D&D books took place and less of a game setting for me to use. This is why it doesn't feel like a malleable toolbox to me. In a similar vein, Exandria feels like the setting where Critical Role takes place and less of a game setting for me to use. I have a similar problem with a number of settings where the stories in the settings seemingly overshadow those settings. This is why I have little to no interest, for example, in roleplaying in Star Wars/Trek game or a supers game in the DC or Marvel universe.* Or maybe another analogy would be coloring books. Exandria and Forgotten Realms feel like coloring books that people have already used and colored-in that comes with instructions on the appropriate colors to use on each page. Nentir Vale feels like an unused coloring book with no instructions.

In comparison, Eberron exists mostly as a loose canon universe frozen in time and intentionally built with plot hooks and mysteries without answers. This makes Eberron for my purposes far more usable than Forgotten Realms. Nentir Vale gave the bare minimum and an implied setting that let people do their own thing with it. It would be nice if D&D made something more akin to that. Ghosts of Saltmarsh is close. But I would personally like to see Nentir Vale being used as a sample setting for a resource guide on running sandbox games in D&D because that would be an excellent fit.

* Simply saying that you and others have no problem running games in those universe really does not mean that I can or that I would find it enjoyable. You telling me that I can is not somehow going to magically cure an issue that I have had with roleplaying since I began at the beginning of my 3e days.

I hear where you are coming from: one of the most awkward fit RPG experiences of my life was an attempt by one of my friends to run the d20 Wheel of Time RPG from WotC. The system was quite good (the modification to 3.x spellcasting actually resemble 5E, interestingly enough), but the attempt to play in Robert Jordan's world in the midst of the books plot, with people who had read the books...yikes. One of the players actually tried to assassinate Rand Al'Thor for no real reason, which was...awkward.

Forgotten Realms doesn't present the same problem for me, given the lack of a tight, cosmic narrative. It's easy to run even in the Sword Coast without meeting any big novel protagonists. Even moreso with Greyhawk. Eberron is about the same as those two, but nipping a metastory in the bud from the beginning was smart.

 

[Parmandur]

This actually sums up everything I don't like about Nentir Vale. If I want a sandbox setting I'm way more likely to create my own, or use something really obscure like Colville's Invincible Overlord setting.

I also have faith I can build a better sandbox than Nentir Vale... I have no such faith I can create an extremely detailed world like Exandria or FR.

I know I could build as detailed a world as those, but it's a lot of time and effort, and when I feel like doing that having material on hand to steal is helpful.

 

[Aldarc]

This actually sums up everything I don't like about Nentir Vale. If I want a sandbox setting I'm way more likely to create my own, or use something really obscure like Colville's Invincible Overlord setting.

I also have faith I can build a better sandbox than Nentir Vale... I have no such faith I can create an extremely detailed world like Exandria or FR.

Conversely, I don't have faith that you can build a better sandbox, which is why I prefer the Nentir Vale. I do have faith that I could create an extremely detailed world like Exandria or FR, but I find such enterprises to be massive wastes of time with little to no payoff.

 

[Zaukrie]

Love this setting.....

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I know I could build as detailed a world as those, but it's a lot of time and effort, and when I feel like doing that having material on hand to steal is helpful.

Yeah I agree that if I had more time I could do it... but I also don't really want to, as I usually won't need such material found in detailed settings, and the players are more excited by a true sandbox where they can "make their mark on the world," as opposed to being small players in an established one (even one I've designed).

Conversely, I don't have faith that you can build a better sandbox, which is why I prefer the Nentir Vale. I do have faith that I could create an extremely detailed world like Exandria or FR, but I find such enterprises to be massive wastes of time with little to no payoff.

I don't expect you to have faith in me; we've never met after all. But if I'm starting up a sandbox game, I would start by asking all the players about their characters, some of their backgrounds, family, etc. Then I'm building the sandbox around that, instead of trying to adapt the setting for them.

Nentir Vale is just... fine. I think I find that because it pulls so much material from past other settings it barely registers to me as something distinct, and more of an amalgamation of several other things as the developers tried to create a distilled "pure D&D setting." Which to me just makes it feel boring and unoriginal, but clearly a lot of people do love it.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah I agree that if I had more time I could do it... but I also don't really want to, as I usually won't need such material found in detailed settings, and the players are more excited by a true sandbox where they can "make their mark on the world," as opposed to being small players in an established one (even one I've designed).



I don't expect you to have faith in me; we've never met after all. But if I'm starting up a sandbox game, I would start by asking all the players about their characters, some of their backgrounds, family, etc. Then I'm building the sandbox around that, instead of trying to adapt the setting for them.

Nentir Vale is just... fine. I think I find that because it pulls so much material from past other settings it barely registers to me as something distinct, and more of an amalgamation of several other things as the developers tried to create a distilled "pure D&D setting." Which to me just makes it feel boring and unoriginal, but clearly a lot of people do love it.

You have a bit of a point about the pastiche feel of the Setting (not that there's anything wrong with that!). For me, the really original part apart from the "Points of Light" campaign style, in comparison to older D&D Settings, is the cosmogeny and mythos in place around the Dawn War. Which is what Mercer took wholesale for Exandria, which is probably why Exandria hits the Nentir Vale spot for me...