D&D 4E Tropes of the Nentir Vale

[Haffrung]

The thing that stands out about Nentir Vale is it's one of the few D&D settings that is boots-on-the-ground scale. 200 miles by 150 miles should easily cover all of the adventuring locales for a party to reach at least 10th level. It's a setting at a scale that is meant to run actual adventures in, rather than a setting for DMs to spin fantasies or for writers to set novels in. That practical, accessible scope is sadly rare in D&D.

 

[Parmandur]

The thing that stands out about Nentir Vale is it's one of the few D&D settings that is boots-on-the-ground scale. 200 miles by 150 miles should easily cover all of the adventuring locales for a party to reach at least 10th level. It's a setting at a scale that is meant to run actual adventures in, rather than a setting for DMs to spin fantasies or for writers to set novels in. That practical, accessible scope is sadly rare in D&D.

Actually, WotC has been pretty good at providing that in 5E: we get several such "mini-Settings" a year.

 

[Aldarc]

You have a bit of a point about the pastiche feel of the Setting (not that there's anything wrong with that!). For me, the really original part apart from the "Points of Light" campaign style, in comparison to older D&D Settings, is the cosmogeny and mythos in place around the Dawn War. Which is what Mercer took wholesale for Exandria, which is probably why Exandria hits the Nentir Vale spot for me...

Not really. Exandria feels more like a dumbed-down version of the Dawn War mythos that falls back on good gods vs evil gods trope and ignores that the evil gods were allied with the other gods against the primordials in the Dawn War. Bane (Achra), for example, was one of the foremost leaders of the armies of the gods against the primordials. So the mythos of Exandria kinda feels more like the characters of Macbeth starring in the story of Much Ado About Nothing. It's a bit of an uncanny valley feeling.

Actually, WotC has been pretty good at providing that in 5E: we get several such "mini-Settings" a year.

I hope that WotC floods 5e with so many feats so that you grow tired of defending every little thing WotC does.

 

[Parmandur]

Not really. Exandria feels more like a dumbed-down version of the Dawn War mythos that falls back on good gods vs evil gods trope and ignores that the evil gods were allied with the other gods against the primordials in the Dawn War. Bane (Achra), for example, was one of the foremost leaders of the armies of the gods against the primordials. So the mythos of Exandria kinda feels more like the characters of Macbeth starring in the story of Much Ado About Nothing. It's a bit of an uncanny valley feeling.

I hope that WotC floods 5e with so many feats so that you grow tired of defending every little thing WotC does.

I definitely don't defend everything that they do, the recent Subclasses UA was hot garbage, for example.

However, I do really like their overall direction since they learned from their mistakes of the Aughts.

The Betrayer gods in Exandria were the allies of the main Pantheon in fighting the Primordials during the Dawn War. The Cataclysm is millenia after the Dawn War that defeated the Primordials, created the Abyss with Tharizdun at the center, etc. If anything, Exandria is a better fleshed out explanation of the relationships of the gods from the 4E core cosmology.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

The thing that stands out about Nentir Vale is it's one of the few D&D settings that is boots-on-the-ground scale. 200 miles by 150 miles should easily cover all of the adventuring locales for a party to reach at least 10th level. It's a setting at a scale that is meant to run actual adventures in, rather than a setting for DMs to spin fantasies or for writers to set novels in. That practical, accessible scope is sadly rare in D&D.

I have the D&D 5E starter set, it's practically the same thing as this. And it combined with the Essentials Kit will also take a party to level 10 (and I currently am running a party through both, and they're level 6 already).

Not really. Exandria feels more like a dumbed-down version of the Dawn War mythos that falls back on good gods vs evil gods trope and ignores that the evil gods were allied with the other gods against the primordials in the Dawn War. Bane (Achra), for example, was one of the foremost leaders of the armies of the gods against the primordials. So the mythos of Exandria kinda feels more like the characters of Macbeth starring in the story of Much Ado About Nothing. It's a bit of an uncanny valley feeling.

I own and read the Wildemount book; there is some lore in there I don't like, but the description here for the gods is very much off-base. They all were allied against Primordials in Exandria, then turned on each other after. Plus it adds some nice tidbits about each god that are very original, and I especially find the Crawling King Torog gross and horrifying.

Also I do not understand that Shakespeare analogy at all.

 

[Parmandur]

I have the D&D 5E starter set, it's practically the same thing as this. And it combined with the Essentials Kit will also take a party to level 10 (and I currently am running a party through both, and they're level 6 already).



I own and read the Wildemount book; there is some lore in there I don't like, but the description here for the gods is very much off-base. They all were allied against Primordials in Exandria, then turned on each other after. Plus it adds some nice tidbits about each god that are very original, and I especially find the Crawling King Torog gross and horrifying.

Also I do not understand that Shakespeare analogy at all.

I got the Green Ronin Tal'Dorei book a while back, after starting to get into Campaign 2 of Critical Role: I started reading it before I was aware of the background and history of Mercer's game, and very quickly was surprised to discover that, hey, this was the Dawn War mythos and Pantheon. Entirely, beat for beat.

 

[Aldarc]

If anything, Exandria is a better fleshed out explanation of the relationships of the gods from the 4E core cosmology.

Again It is the difference between a coloring book that has been filled in by someone else and a fresh coloring book with sketches that have not.
I prefer the latter and there is A LOT about the mythos of the implied setting that gets subsequently explored in later supplements.

 

[Parmandur]

Again It is the difference between a coloring book that has been filled in by someone else and a fresh coloring book with sketches that have not.
I prefer the latter and there is A LOT about the mythos of the implied setting that gets subsequently explored in later supplements.

I'll have to take your word on that, as I never could get into 4E beyond the original Core books: and what is presented in that original Core made it into Exandria (moreso Tal'Dorei, particularly if you parse Emon as Nerath with the serial numbers filed off) pretty precisely.

Mercer's Exandria is still a wide open sandbox Setting, too, for that matter.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I'll have to take your word on that, as I never could get into 4E beyond the original Core books: and what is presented in that original Core made it into Exandria (moreso Tal'Dorei, particularly if you parse Emon as Nerath with the serial numbers filed off) pretty precisely.

Mercer's Exandria is still a wide open sandbox Setting, too, for that matter.

More of a quibble, but you can honestly make any setting a sandbox based on how you use the printed material. I've made Forgotten Realms a sandbox with Phandelver/Icespire Peak.

So the argument here that "Nentir Vale is a sandbox and Exandria is not" is a little silly because both easily can be, it's a style of play.

What @Aldarc really seems to be arguing in favor of Nentir Vale is that you can more easily fill create your own details to fill in the many available blank spaces of its lore. Which is indisputably true, but doesn't make it a better or worse sandbox than any other setting (which is really down to the DMs playstyle).

 

[Aldarc]

I'll have to take your word on that, as I never could get into 4E beyond the original Core books: and what is presented in that original Core made it into Exandria (moreso Tal'Dorei, particularly if you parse Emon as Nerath with the serial numbers filed off) pretty precisely.

Precisely. It is mostly superficial similarity that stems from a rooting in using the 4e core books rather than the Nentir Vale setting itself.

Mercer's Exandria is still a wide open sandbox Setting, too, for that matter.

It’s more theme park for setting tourists than a sandbox at this point.