Level Up (A5E) End the 5 minute work-day by making all classes work off short rests.

[Tales and Chronicles]

I did think of it in terms of 13th Age escalation choice, and a little bit like momentum from Ironsworn.

I like it a lot. The Escalation die of 13th age is a cool mechanic. Would the Momentum die be added to all creatures, players and foes or just the players?

I would probably add a few little bonus to the Momentum that everyone can benefit:
Like:

Momentum 2: Drinking a potion now requires a Bonus Action
Momentum 4: +5 speed, +1 item interaction per turn.
Momentum 6: +1 Reaction per turn.

 

[ThatGuySteve]

I like it a lot. The Escalation die of 13th age is a cool mechanic. Would the Momentum die be added to all creatures, players and foes or just the players?

I would probably add a few little bonus to the Momentum that everyone can benefit:
Like:

Momentum 2: Drinking a potion now requires a Bonus Action
Momentum 4: +5 speed, +1 item interaction per turn.
Momentum 6: +1 Reaction per turn.

Just added to players I think. If it was added to foes the benefits would be cancelled out, reinforcing the desire for more rests. Momentum needs to give characters an edge.

I had considered it a flat bonus to keep it simple, I wouldn't want to need an extra chart to need to keep on hand, but that might be OK for some groups.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Just added to players I think. If it was added to foes the benefits would be cancelled out, reinforcing the desire for more rests. Momentum needs to give characters an edge.

I had considered it a flat bonus to keep it simple, I wouldn't want to need an extra chart to need to keep on hand, but that might be OK for some groups.

I agree this is a "party-only" mechanic. Of course, the DM could award it to NPC/retainers who are with the party.

would probably add a few little bonus to the Momentum that everyone can benefit:
Like:

Momentum 2: Drinking a potion now requires a Bonus Action
Momentum 4: +5 speed, +1 item interaction per turn.
Momentum 6: +1 Reaction per turn.

Interesting. Now, here's an odd point. If the bonuses effectively help mitigate the effects of expended features and HP, are they really helping?

This ultimately gets me thinking all resources should be encounter based. Like per encounter. For instance, once a fighter gets action surge, he can use it every encounter. Spells would need to be toned down quite a bit, not to last until a short or long rest, but just enough to see you through the fight.

The only problem with this is it pretty much removes the attrition aspect of the game... So, I'm not sold on it.

 

[TiwazTyrsfist]

Momentum is a pretty good idea.
That way, even if you DO spend more resources in an encounter than you should, you have incentive to keep going.
I personally don't mind the "5 minute work day", to me it seems like playing the game as it's designed, BUT I like the idea of having a Positive reinforcement to NOT do that, rather than trying to come up with ways to punish or force players not to play in what is, Mechanically, the smartest way.

I really like this idea as a subsystem, I hope it becomes a part of this project.

 

[ThatGuySteve]

I agree this is a "party-only" mechanic. Of course, the DM could award it to NPC/retainers who are with the party.


Interesting. Now, here's an odd point. If the bonuses effectively help mitigate the effects of expended features and HP, are they really helping?

This ultimately gets me thinking all resources should be encounter based. Like per encounter. For instance, once a fighter gets action surge, he can use it every encounter. Spells would need to be toned down quite a bit, not to last until a short or long rest, but just enough to see you through the fight.

The only problem with this is it pretty much removes the attrition aspect of the game... So, I'm not sold on it.

I think having a solid, in world definition of when to refresh is necessary, be it a 5 minute or 1 hour rest. It is easy for "encounters" to get messy at times, so you lose track of when you can or can't refresh.

I also like managing resources between refreshs. If I can use an ability 3 times between rests, it is up to me if I use them all up early, use 1 per fight, or save them for the big monster I know is coming up.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The only problem with this is it pretty much removes the attrition aspect of the game... So, I'm not sold on it.

You know, I was asking myself the same question yesterday. D&D has always been an attrition based game, but at first there were only a few resources to drain: HP, spellslots, maybe consumables like torches and such. Now? Most classes have shiny button that can be used a varying number of times before they run out. It became pretty hard for the DM to drain all those resources: long rest resources, short rest resources, HP, Exhaustion, Consumables etc. In 5e, there's so many ressource to drain before the characters can be tapped out!

So I think having D&D be an attrition challenge, when everybody as so much potential resource is a little of a fool errand. Now, we are no longer talking about A5E because that would require too much work and damage compatibility, but the game could be made to ignore the attrition of players' powers. Make their features either at-will or encounter based (with re-balanced spell effects), and only focus on draining HP, which should be lower to avoid characters running at full steam for 3 days . You could merge Exhaustion and HP together if you want a death spiral effect.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think having a solid, in world definition of when to refresh is necessary, be it a 5 minute or 1 hour rest.

Well, that goes without saying. Otherwise, when do you get them back?

I also like managing resources between refreshs. If I can use an ability 3 times between rests, it is up to me if I use them all up early, use 1 per fight, or save them for the big monster I know is coming up.

I do as well. And frankly it never made a difference to me whether the refresh was after sleeping, after lunch, or after a coffee break. The issue is more when players keep wanting breaks all the time so they go into each encounter full up.

 

[DND_Reborn]

You know, I was asking myself the same question yesterday. D&D has always been an attrition based game, but at first there were only a few resources to drain: HP, spellslots, maybe consumables like torches and such. Now? Most classes have shiny button that can be used a varying number of times before they run out. It became pretty hard for the DM to drain all those resources: long rest resources, short rest resources, HP, Exhaustion, Consumables etc. In 5e, there's so many ressource to drain before the characters can be tapped out!

So I think having D&D be an attrition challenge, when everybody as so much potential resource is a little of a fool errand. Now, we are no longer talking about A5E because that would require too much work and damage compatibility, but the game could be made to ignore the attrition of players' powers. Make their features either at-will or encounter based (with re-balanced spell effects), and only focus on draining HP, which should be lower to avoid characters running at full steam for 3 days . You could merge Exhaustion and HP together if you want a death spiral effect.

The only time our groups are to the breaking point are in gauntlets, a series of encounters with little or no time in between to heal up, etc.

Otherwise, here is what happens (at least at the tables I play at): we fight, get injured, and heal up via spells or potions. So, over 90% of the time the next encounter we have max HP or close to it again. We might be down a couple spells slots or potions, but nothing major.

Anyway, I just see the momentum concept as a way to remove the rest, but in refreshing features you are really just getting rid of the time element. Now, I think we are really talking more about momentum granting "other things", not refreshing features, but the point is to encourage players to keep going instead of resting.

I don't know. LOL I feel like I am going in circles. Maybe I just need to see it more fleshed out? Then we'll see.

 

[tetrasodium]

I agree this is a "party-only" mechanic. Of course, the DM could award it to NPC/retainers who are with the party.


Interesting. Now, here's an odd point. If the bonuses effectively help mitigate the effects of expended features and HP, are they really helping?

This ultimately gets me thinking all resources should be encounter based. Like per encounter. For instance, once a fighter gets action surge, he can use it every encounter. Spells would need to be toned down quite a bit, not to last until a short or long rest, but just enough to see you through the fight.

The only problem with this is it pretty much removes the attrition aspect of the game... So, I'm not sold on it.

Having some abilities being per encounter isn't bad, but "scene" is a better metric since there's more room to scale it back if the party decides they are going to treat a break in & kill bad guys simple thing like LMNOP wave echo cave or redbrand hideout into a 4 hour ninja hardcore combat as war trek inspired by tomb of horrors.

Of course if it's meant to be used every fight, it's easier to just give it a cooldown of like 1-2 minutes. If a fight is lasting 10-20 rounds it's epoc enough to justify reaching deep and pulling out that trump card a second time rather than just saying that trump card is the same 1 use both for that one teenage thief armed with a sharp stick as well as the entire the battle of helms deep.

 

[Eric V]

To keep attrition, how about spending HD to recharge powers?

Imagine daily powers being recharge 16+ and per-battle powers being recharge 11+. Roll for recharge at the end of the battle used. If the recharge roll fails, one can spend a HD to recharge the power.

Obviously, the idea needs smoothing out, but it allows for more balance in the different rest rates, keeps the resource-counting aspect of the game, and encourages players "pushing their luck."